Patch Notes 31/1/2017

[Karast]

Sorry but are you crazy with the new system for aoe , 1 party kill one wb in the keep, how the hell, stop doing bullshit with the game plz.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I actually recall organised 6 mans being able to defend a keep against immeasurable before the AoE mechanic change. Now could it be that either their organisation and positioning beats the numbers you have? Who knows; let's blame it on the AoE system instead.

My guild took some videos and I hope we can arrange to post them soon. But the damage really is over the top, and my biggest issue is that it is largely unavoidable.

In open field you can spread out a bit, but doing so favors large groups over smaller ones, since it is easier for them to pick people off.

But in keeps, sieges and defenses there is quite simply no safe place to be or stand on the ramps, in the door ways, at the posterns. There is no way not to be clumped, and the amount of damage 2-3 melee can do, is warband crushing. It only takes 2-3 melee dropping down from behind, or popping in a postern and you can have half a warband or more dead and dieing. It is vicious burst, better than morale dumps. 3k AoE per GCD is not unusual.

That alone is troubling but this has really shifted the focus to stacking melee, and running smaller numbers to not lose damage to friendly fire. When you look at AoE builds, on not only melee, but rdps, and even healers like AoE RP's they are all melee. 40 ft and less. Why should these buffs only apply to mdps? Everyone works in the same range, why favor one group over another?

I don't disagree with the core philosophy behind the changes, but the scaling is off. The number of targets, the damage scaling, and descaling, and the affected careers all need a hard look imho.

[charlysixb]

Sorry but are you crazy with the new system for aoe , 1 party kill one wb in the keep, how the hell, stop doing bullshit with the game plz.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I actually recall organised 6 mans being able to defend a keep against immeasurable before the AoE mechanic change. Now could it be that either their organisation and positioning beats the numbers you have? Who knows; let's blame it on the AoE system instead.

Spoiler:

I know this is a bad one, no timestamp and bad resolution...actually dont even need a group, works with 2 or 3 guys i didnt die because i'm full defensive but my partner and lotsa people died in there.
I actually lol'd.

[RyanMakara]

I'm thankful for these sensible replies, guys. As somebody who no longer plays in RvR, yet wishes to assist in making it as balanced and fun as possible, this feedback is greatly appreciated. I do not underestimate the complications this change brings, and thus getting level-headed replies instead of outright, harsh criticism without proof goes a long way, not just for a personal POV but perhaps a server-wide one.

[Morf]

You can see in this vid the numbers achievable, bare in mind none of this is serious gameplay with a proper group setup, if done with a full group who coordinate right the outcome could be ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAriTHtfrsU

[Collateral]

We did the same thing when we tested. I don't know if we have any vids for this, but the damage is pretty insane. One party flanks or gets in the backlines and it's all over. No matter how good your healers are, you are dead, whole wb wiped in seconds. We ran 3 melee trains, each having a separate main assist. It was a bit challenging to coordinate, but we diddn't do too bad I would say, it takes some getting used to and training.

It's especialy rediculous in tight areas, like squigly pens bo in BC, and keeps ofc. The thing about this change is that having huge numbers in tight ares is a disadvantage, and a very big one. That is completely ilogical, whatever you say to me, I simply can't agree with that. We had our 3 parties in that north bo in BC, and we faced I would say a wb and a half easily. We absolutely destroyed them. One party pushed to backlines and wrecked everything, while other two remained in the front, still wrecking everything.

The downside of this setup is playing in the open. Having to coordinate 3 groups, each having a main assist, can get you in trouble quickly. You can easily get surrounded, and being outnumbered means you pretty much have no chance, because you simply can't dish out enough damage in time, and the colision certainly doesn't help in assisting melee trains.

[Zanilos]

You can see in this vid the numbers achievable, bare in mind none of this is serious gameplay with a proper group setup, if done with a full group who coordinate right the outcome could be ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAriTHtfrsU

Yeah that'll sort out those pesky 1 button mashing aoe morons... oh... wait...

[Foltestik]

We had our 3 parties in that north bo in BC, and we faced I would say a wb and a half easily.

this must be normal for proper guild warband doesnt matter how this game work

[roadkillrobin]

We had our 3 parties in that north bo in BC, and we faced I would say a wb and a half easily.

this must be normal for proper guild warband doesnt matter how this game work

Except that the argument for this change is that numbers always is the definite winning factor aswell as bomb groups playstyle is shitty gameplay and mindlessl 1 button rotations easy win mode.

And the way its solved by this sollution is either mass single target assist groups not even able to pull of 1/4 of rotation before something dies or spamming 1 AoE skill over and over, compared to the bomb groups who actually used proper 4-5 skill rotations and were extremly dependant on possitioning. I wonder wich style who actuall makes for worse gameplay in large scale fighting here.

[Dresden]

Sorry but are you crazy with the new system for aoe , 1 party kill one wb in the keep, how the hell, stop doing bullshit with the game plz.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I actually recall organised 6 mans being able to defend a keep against immeasurable before the AoE mechanic change. Now could it be that either their organisation and positioning beats the numbers you have? Who knows; let's blame it on the AoE system instead.

My guild took some videos and I hope we can arrange to post them soon. But the damage really is over the top, and my biggest issue is that it is largely unavoidable.

In open field you can spread out a bit, but doing so favors large groups over smaller ones, since it is easier for them to pick people off.

But in keeps, sieges and defenses there is quite simply no safe place to be or stand on the ramps, in the door ways, at the posterns. There is no way not to be clumped, and the amount of damage 2-3 melee can do, is warband crushing. It only takes 2-3 melee dropping down from behind, or popping in a postern and you can have half a warband or more dead and dieing. It is vicious burst, better than morale dumps. 3k AoE per GCD is not unusual.

That alone is troubling but this has really shifted the focus to stacking melee, and running smaller numbers to not lose damage to friendly fire. When you look at AoE builds, on not only melee, but rdps, and even healers like AoE RP's they are all melee. 40 ft and less. Why should these buffs only apply to mdps? Everyone works in the same range, why favor one group over another?

I don't disagree with the core philosophy behind the changes, but the scaling is off. The number of targets, the damage scaling, and descaling, and the affected careers all need a hard look imho.

My first response to all of this did not get posted, i thought better of it and threw it away, it would DEFINITELY have gotten me a permaban.

Oh the rage... oh the sarcasm... oh the disbelief...

#GiveUpNow #DrStrangeNerfOrHowILearnedToStopWorryingAndLoveTheChangeLog

[Jaycub]

Some feedback after running a few 6 man groups built around the changes on both sides

>Keep Defense suiciding

I warned of this a bit back in T3 cap, with WH/WE which had a strat were you just run out of the front of the keep suicide for 1 kill get the huge RR/Inf from the kill respawn and you are back in less than 30 seconds to do it again. Now enter these changes and you can do it with six mans, except instead of some RR and forcing them to res someone, you have a chance to wipe an attacking force in some cases. It's super cheesy, really need bigger punishment for dying at the keep as a defender tbh. This is however mostly a PUG and low population problem, but nonetheless I see it as something that should be fixed.

>Mara/Slayer

These 2 classes end up being perfect examples of good MDPS to fit into these groups. WH/WE are a joke, even if you gave them the razor/slice tactic intrinsically they would never be considered. Choppa isn't too bad, but doesn't really have any standout aside from damage, but mara arguably does more with piercing bite and mutated aggressor. WL is kinda in the same boat as WH/WE. It just kinda annoys me to see double slayer/mara as the gold standard. Well I'm not too sure double slayer is really "gold standard" it's still way worse than double mara for obvious reasons, but it's still the best order has for uncapped AoE groups.

>Zealot

As far as I know, has the only AoE armor debuff in the game. Really good thing to have for these groups, and the AP ritual frees up a lot of slack on tactics/gear that the MDPS need to have.

>Chosen

Really brings the 25% incoming healdebuff aura in the spot light


The changes definitely work, and do some good in contributing to discouraging funneling. Though I'm afraid that funneling is still a mandatory way of life in this game, as you still have to push through the outer gate (respawning in the keep defenders here sucks), and you still have a huge funnel on the lord. Attacking was never fun, and these changes made it even less so. Hopefully client control will allow you guys to remedy that.