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Patchnotes 03/02/17

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blaqwar
Posts: 471

Re: Patchnotes 03/02/17

Post#131 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:09 pm

simtex wrote:Taunt? It has no cooldown(just recast), and how do you CC somebody with 70% avoidance? Even landing a disarm through WoDS wont interrupt it.

Surround him? Some kind of joke or?
Wait so you're saying you are incapable of spreading your tanks and MDPS around a SM so he could parry 1 target at a time? CC from behind? All right, enjoy whatever game you're playing because parry is not omnidirectional on RoR. And taunt does hinder the SM, it interrupts WoDS and has to be recast, it will never be recast the exact same second, if you're lucky it'll take a few sec (lag and human reaction).


@Atropik: You didn't explain how the wounds debuff is suddenly OP without being changed. The fact that WP/DoK have a lot of free points is a completely different issue. It feels like the keg issue all over again, an ability never complained about but once the class is played more/ability is actually picked up destro start whining. Let's mirror/nerf every unique Order ability and let destro keep theirs (nerfs to CD increaser, crit buffs, keg, now wounds buff?). Then maybe all the biased people can stop whining. And please don't start with the "but I play Order sometimes for 10 min on a certain day of the month!" :roll:

And afaik the WP wounds buff cast time is slightly longer than a group heal, at least that's how I remember it from live where I specced it. I also seem to recall it not healing for the amount of HP increased, don't know if it works like that on RoR. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. If I am wrong then the buff being changed to not heal seems like a balance change that should be proposed.

But again, buff with a cast time:
Interrupts + Severs = Profit

@roadkillrobin: Similar to what Luth points out above, I feel like the sacrifices Order would have to make in order to successfuly run those wounds debuffs is big. Destro has to make very little to no sacrifices. Obviously the value of such debuffs increases the easier they are to run.

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Daknallbomb
Game Artist
Posts: 1781

Re: Patchnotes 03/02/17

Post#132 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:22 pm

how the hell can ppl think that a cleanseble wound buff can be op ? wtf
@blaqwar mayb stop blame things like cd increaser , crtibuff , keg nerfes !
THe devs dont changed it just for fun or cause destru ppl whine about that
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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2773

Re: Patchnotes 03/02/17

Post#133 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:30 pm

Luth wrote:
roadkillrobin wrote:
roadkillrobin wrote:Slayer have a wounds debuff aswell. Its usually not specced for, meaning that the use for a wounds debuff isn't really that high priority.
Luth wrote:Yes, this must be the reason then. Slayer not speccing for wounds debuff = wounds debuff no high priority ability.
If Wounds debuff would be the shiznit high priority skill people in this thread make it up to be, we would see alot more 2hander knights and slayers. The truth is that its much less priority then ID and Dual Weild for Slayers or Dirty tricks and Shields for Kotbs and if order really was starving for wounds debuffs they would make those sacrifice. Wich they are not. It's the same as with Morale gain whine again. The option to get the tools are there, people chose not to use them and call out for nerfs instead. Same thing with Destro whining about stacking crit buffs. Noone using the crit reduction tools and instead goes for self dmg/mitigeation boosting. Cookicutter builds completly destroys people creative thinking and blames it on ballance.
1k+ "unmitigated damage" from a wounds debuff is actually very powerful, furthermore it reduces the "HP wall" that has to be overcome to kill someone. The value of a wounds debuff is higher, the more mitigation the target has (because it gets harder to remove HP from a target by doing damage).
You argue that kotbs and slayer would sacrifice to run around with 2h more often (slayer have to drop rage for the debuff too), if the debuff would be really valuable and yet you don't mention that none of the wounds debuffs on several destruction characters requires any serious sacrifice at all. Indeed the abundance of them and the easy availability is imo one of the main reasons why people think the BG is underpowered.
To argue that wounds debuffs are not high priority/valuable, because not many 2h slayers/kotbs are seen is like arguing that greenskins must be made of gras, because they are green. It doesn't prove anything.
On crit stacking: people had to stack 25% less chance to be crit (~45 renown points) just to counter a possible group with those 2 tactics; the tactics also buff the healers healcrit chance, which made it even worse.
On one side we had possibly insane crit values via 2 tactics on two characters and on the other we had the need to spend 45 renown points on every character to counter that (as mentioned this doesn't even include the massive gain from heals). This was imbalanced.
Your kinda contradicting yourself. You're saying on one hand that Wounds debuffs are really really strong then also saying it's not worth speccing for.
The only classes that gets Wounds debuff for free is Chosen, Kotbs and WE and WE don't really use it for the same reasons Slayers think its bad (even tho they have a tactic that prevents rage from dropping) And the only class that get it requirement free is Chosen. (sorta, they need to use a discord aura).
All im saying is that order don't prioritize the wounds debuff over the other stuff they can get (in general) So any argument that Maras have OP Wounds debuff is kinda foolish. People simply don't spec for it and cries for nerfs due to not being part of the cookiecutter FOTM set ups. (again in general). As for the crit debuffs and morale drains, it was just an example of how people don't use the tools thats acceseble coz of unwillingness to break their builds and try to counter or lower the benefits that the meta groupcomps are using.
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lastalien
Posts: 456

Re: Patchnotes 03/02/17

Post#134 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:24 pm

roadkillrobin wrote: All im saying is that order don't prioritize the wounds debuff over the other stuff they can get (in general) So any argument that Maras have OP Wounds debuff is kinda foolish. People simply don't spec for it and cries for nerfs due to not being part of the cookiecutter FOTM set ups. (again in general). As for the crit debuffs and morale drains, it was just an example of how people don't use the tools thats acceseble coz of unwillingness to break their builds and try to counter or lower the benefits that the meta groupcomps are using.
Mara have wounds debuff in prim spec with armor and heal debuff. Weird to explain it
Petitbras (SW), Threeend (BW), Arrgoor (SL), Popovich (KoTBs), Semenich (Eng), Ancle (WP), Lastalien (WL), Alienessa (AM)

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Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: Patchnotes 03/02/17

Post#135 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:46 pm

roadkillrobin wrote: Your kinda contradicting yourself. You're saying on one hand that Wounds debuffs are really really strong then also saying it's not worth speccing for.
No, i didn't say it's not worth speccing for. In my opinion wounds debuffs should be generally special/rare, which means no core wounds debuffs, no 100%+ uptime and they come with some kind of a tradeoff. The slayer WD is a good example how it should be.
roadkillrobin wrote: All im saying is that order don't prioritize the wounds debuff over the other stuff they can get (in general) So any argument that Maras have OP Wounds debuff is kinda foolish.
And you still don't understand that the main problem is that the other side doesn't have to priorize it over something else.

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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Patchnotes 03/02/17

Post#136 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:37 pm

When topics about balance get locked or moved to the balance forum, I do not expect patchnotes threads to be co-opted so you can bitch about Sigmar's Grace there.

Locked. Any other topics on it made outside of balance forum will be locked.

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