Patch Notes 22/4/2017

[boog]

Spoiler:

the 45% crit reduction does not mean they have a flat 45% crit reduction it scales to their current crit chance. I think on average it reduces crit @ 90-100 hate by 5.5%. Also FoF only lasts 10 seconds with a 20 second cool down and that 45% is only if the BG is at 90+ hate. which means you have a whole 10 seconds to take a crack at it before it can be up again.

45% less chance to be crit from the ability + 3% less chance to be crit from an item/renown; if your chance to be crit goes under 0, it will lower the enemies chance to crit you. I'm pretty sure that i posted something like that already in one of the BG buff suggestions when the balance forum was available.
The ability was always very powerful and is imo now potentially overpowered.

I must have missed it. But the % the buff gives to reduced crit chance scales off the players chance to be crit already, granted it would further reduce their chance to be crit but if the DP is already stacking renown and gear to reduce their chance to be crit in the large scale wont do all that much, assuming it is at maximum capacity it will only scale it slightly.

So say the player has 7% chance to be crit. @ 90-100 hate and the 45% crit reduction, the 45% scales with the players 7% only reducing the players chance to be crit by 3.15%. So the lower the player has a chance to be crit the less it scales. I just tested it out on my BG who for the test had a 18.7 chance to be crit. Got 100 Hate, pop FoF for 45% and it reduced it by 8.41 giving me a 10.29% chance to be crit.

Spoiler:

BG does not have a resist debuff which you seemed to imply.

6pc Beastlord bonus

assuming they wear 6 piece beastlord but considering the proc is pretty useless for BG's abilities they are better (or so I have found) mixing other pieces of armor for better stat bonuses like STR or TGH

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Balance discussions were closed, balance efforts put on hold. There are gaping holes in the balance of the game left over from the last experimental modes (ridiculous AM/Shaman Energy of Vaul/Fury of da Green) and balancing decisions. BW/Sorc with procs nerfed to the ground are useless in 6v6. WH/WE are light armour classes that deal less damage than some medium armour classes due to armour state of the game (a state stabilization problem left over from live). Certain WL spec is broken amazing for PuG play, yet useless in organized play. In a high damage setting experimental mode AM/Shaman can heal 2x-3x of what other healing classes can, whilst moving at the same time and having a strongly buffed AP drain that when covered by other DoTs is a long term soft disable.

Yet the Dev team chooses to focus on BG, because particular dev plays BG. That being said BG is underused (and Devs in question effort is much appreciated in that respect and I mean that), but people forget to look for the deeper and in fact very simple meta reasons beyond that. Classes go in and out of the meta due to other classes being popular/unpopular, not neccesarily because they themselves are weak or strong. AoE slow is an extremely useful utility (making BOrcs very important) and in the current state of the game a Crippling Strike Chosen is a 25% damage decrease for the entire enemy group (with fotm healing combo being RP+AM on Order, group cleanse from WP is no longer a viable solution). The reason BG couldn't get into cookie cutter setups are the two above, with his AoE slow being too long cd and Chosen being broken in current meta. Meaning BO and Chosen are unfireable. As far as I can see nothing is changing with the above dilemma, facing anyone making a destruction group. The only thing that could change the matter is if BG would be made so overpowered it would replace the BO out of simple, omg it's so good we cannot pass on it anymore reasons.

Here we are testing balance changes for BG. Noone even properly tested the older BG balance changes that already made the class way better, because BG was out of the meta for above reason relating to other classes, but here we are with another number of buffs.
The risk here is BG will become ridiculous, because it will be buffed over and over again, because people will still refuse to use it, due to meta reasons. Triple tank is already a thing on Order due to the state of the SM, now it may be a thing on Destro too.

Here is my plea: Focus on the balance issues that are breaking the game, before getting into the finer details and look to solve the large issues before focusing on the small ones. By doing things in reverse the 100 small changes made will suddenly blow people's minds about how important they were, when the big problem gets removed from in front of their eyes. The competitive side of the game is already pretty much dead, because people cannot be bothered to play with broken AM/Shaman experimental mode. More broken stuff will just make people even more demotivated to play in any competitive setting. I understand Devs changing the game may feel their expertise only applies to the classes they are playing, and feel disinclined to change things they don't have expert knowledge about. However, I would say it's at least weird to make changes to one class while balance discussions are closed for all other classes. Balance doesn't work in a vacuum.

You dont get to say what we do or do not work on, nor make snide comments based on what staff do or do not play - Torque

@ Torque,

You cannot one day make comments about not changing the overpowered AM/Shaman experimental mode because you are not touching balance and then a week later make an experimental mode for the BG. It's very hypocritical and if there is one thing I hate it is exactly that.

[wargrimnir]

@ Torque,

You cannot one day make comments about not changing the overpowered AM/Shaman experimental mode because you are not touching balance and then a week later make an experimental mode for the BG. It's very hypocritical and if there is one thing I hate it is exactly that.

Yes we can. Things change. To state that changing positions on a subject is hypocritical implies that we are damned to any position we take as players can later beat us over the head with what we once said. We're not interested or tolerant of such criticism because it is pointless to administer.

[gke96]

Theorycrafting is one thing, prove it.

Well ofc im just saying "might", still needs a lot testing

[zumos2]

@ Torque,

You cannot one day make comments about not changing the overpowered AM/Shaman experimental mode because you are not touching balance and then a week later make an experimental mode for the BG. It's very hypocritical and if there is one thing I hate it is exactly that.

Yes we can. Things change. To state that changing positions on a subject is hypocritical implies that we are damned to any position we take as players can later beat us over the head with what we once said. We're not interested or tolerant of such criticism because it is pointless to administer.

Things like this don't suddenly change and you know now that: It is a position you take as a team. It shows that the RoR team did not have a clear plan cut out, which is not unexpected after Azarael left. So instead of saying that "we don't want to make any balance changes or touch the experimental modes", you could have said that the team is discussing their position on this.

Now as you said your position changed on the balance matter that also means you can start adjusting the AM/Shaman experimental modes. In the end I believe it is only good news that you start working on balance again.

[Daknallbomb]

@ Torque,

You cannot one day make comments about not changing the overpowered AM/Shaman experimental mode because you are not touching balance and then a week later make an experimental mode for the BG. It's very hypocritical and if there is one thing I hate it is exactly that.

Yes we can. Things change. To state that changing positions on a subject is hypocritical implies that we are damned to any position we take as players can later beat us over the head with what we once said. We're not interested or tolerant of such criticism because it is pointless to administer.

Things like this don't suddenly change and you know now that: It is a position you take as a team. It shows that the RoR team did not have a clear plan cut out, which is not unexpected after Azarael left. So instead of saying that "we don't want to make any balance changes or touch the experimental modes", you could have said that the team is discussing their position on this.

Now as you said your position changed on the balance matter that also means you can start adjusting the AM/Shaman experimental modes. In the end I believe it is only good news that you start working on balance again.

yay thumbs up for buff dps shammy ;D . they cannot change ????
wtf they can do whatever they want hell check it ..... over and ove the same ....
They can close the whole project tomorrow if they want ... they could delete all wls if they want ...
you say they cant make balance changes as they wnt just because they sad atm balance is not open `? .... hrhr wake up

[zumos2]

@ Torque,

You cannot one day make comments about not changing the overpowered AM/Shaman experimental mode because you are not touching balance and then a week later make an experimental mode for the BG. It's very hypocritical and if there is one thing I hate it is exactly that.

Where exactly did I say that? See the point? Did whoever you are vaguely referencing make these changes? Nope. So who are you accusing of hypocrisy?

Given this isnt a company, we dont get paid, are not beholden to shareholders or even subscribers and as a result we have a very fluid and dynamic structure, what gets worked on gets worked on at the choosing of the people involved. If this in some way inconveniences or upsets you, well I cant even begin to state how much that vexes me... alpha, free game, yadda yadda...

You = the RoR team and Wargrimmnir did say that, so please don't start calling me hypocritic. And please stop with your "we aren't getting paid" type of arguments. For who are you working on the project? Just for yourself or for all the people who want to play the game? (Besides you know many people would want to support the team with giving money, so it isn't even fair to say that)
Further I can totally understand that the team is very dynamic and in a way unpredictable because in the end you are working on this in your spare time. If you want more understanding from the players, please explain what is happening behind the scenes. We are all humans, we can understand if stuff changes, but if you keep all the background information hidden, we are flabbergasted by the sudden changes and more likely to complain.

Also it would be nice to get a better idea of the functions within the team. You are now making balance changes as the head database developer, kinda makes you the lead developer of the team?

[boog]

How about instead of ppl getting upset they did some balance and implemented changes to a class look at it as they are actively listening to the community, trying to implement change to the game and create balance?

Do you really expect them to balance every single class at once at the exact same time? It was not like they decided to say screw you guys we are leaving everything alone. They implemented changes to 1 class hold your horses and give them time to implement changes to other classes. Don't attack them for actually doing something.

[wargrimnir]

Things like this don't suddenly change and you know now that: It is a position you take as a team. It shows that the RoR team did not have a clear plan cut out, which is not unexpected after Azarael left. So instead of saying that "we don't want to make any balance changes or touch the experimental modes", you could have said that the team is discussing their position on this.

Now as you said your position changed on the balance matter that also means you can start adjusting the AM/Shaman experimental modes. In the end I believe it is only good news that you start working on balance again.

You might note the Balance forums are now under the Administration section. They're still locked, but will be opening up with Gerv taking over Balance Mod duties once again. Then, depending on what sort of legible data is presented, we can talk about making adjustments to all kinds of things. The BG changes were not pulled from a single thread, but from many threads, including several that were already discussed at length on the balance forums. Torque feels he is capable enough to make significant changes to abilities, so that's probably going to be his pet project for a while.

Until he stops and decides to do something else of course. At which point we might shut down balance again, much to the sadness and disappointment of all you special snowflakes that think you determine our course of action. Please. We value opinions, but don't try driving the development process. That just annoys the people who do this on their free time, unpaid, and already deal with whines about what every possible viewpoint on how any particular specific thing should be done. If something is wildly broken, which am/sham is not imho, we're always very tuned towards correcting it. Chances are, if it's not getting fixed, then your opinion is not shared by the team. Form a better argument/proof, and present it with proper respect.

[zumos2]

How about instead of ppl getting upset they did some balance and implemented changes to a class look at it as they are actively listening to the community, trying to implement change to the game and create balance?

Do you really expect them to balance every single class at once at the exact same time? It was not like they decided to say screw you guys we are leaving everything alone. They implemented changes to 1 class hold your horses and give them time to implement changes to other classes. Don't attack them for actually doing something.

No one was complaining that they are doing balance changes, but are kinda confused as like a week ago the RoR team said that they didn't wanna do balance changes and now they suddenly they do. As long as this results into more balance changes it is only good news.