Patch Notes 15/7/17

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 1975

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#81 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:52 pm

Yeah like I said. It would be better to try devolpe a new Ultimate mechanic then screw around with Morale vallues as they arn't the vallues (time) the morales were designed for. As far as I know the correct vallues have never been implinented on RoR. Someone just decided that it should be 10M/Sec coz of personal biased reasons. Its the only mechanic that hasn't been properly implemented from Live and tested.
But it doesn't seem to mather how much counter arguments you lay up here. I've made long lists of order exclusive benefits before, that seem to just fly by unnoticed coz of "Morale tactics OP" arguments. Its just a silly spiral of endless nerfing atm. Next there's gonna need to nerf something else coz of morales pumps nerf.
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Collateral
Posts: 850

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#82 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Maybe our whole guild should switch realms and prove how order is no less capable of zerg busting and bombing then destro is. I really wonder what would happen then, after we destroy the destro zerg and other guilds. Like Hao said, it comes down to skill in the end. But the problem is that order just doesn't want to admit it, they simply blame the mechanics. I admit that we generally suck in smalls scale 6v6 and so on, but order players seem to have too much pride, and rather blame something else, whatever it is.
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sanii
Posts: 184

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#83 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Collateral wrote:Maybe our whole guild should switch realms and prove how order is no less capable of zerg busting and bombing then destro is. I really wonder what would happen then, after we destroy the destro zerg and other guilds. Like Hao said, it comes down to skill in the end. But the problem is that order just doesn't want to admit it, they simply blame the mechanics. I admit that we generally suck in smalls scale 6v6 and so on, but order players seem to have too much pride, and rather blame something else, whatever it is.


As long as BW have their bugged morale pump you can do pretty much the same thing on order as on destro,with more punch even,you just need a 'less diverse' warband composition (maybe this is where the problem is??). Not sure where the idea comes from that order can't do the same. As far as raw damage if you remove the moral part order has the upper hand easily in larger scales. But that is the problem , morales(both defensive and offensive), they dictate the game far too much imo that you can't really adress core issues between the realms without looking at morals.
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Haojin
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Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#84 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:25 pm

sanii wrote:
Collateral wrote:Maybe our whole guild should switch realms and prove how order is no less capable of zerg busting and bombing then destro is. I really wonder what would happen then, after we destroy the destro zerg and other guilds. Like Hao said, it comes down to skill in the end. But the problem is that order just doesn't want to admit it, they simply blame the mechanics. I admit that we generally suck in smalls scale 6v6 and so on, but order players seem to have too much pride, and rather blame something else, whatever it is.


As long as BW have their bugged morale pump you can do pretty much the same thing on order as on destro,with more punch even,you just need a 'less diverse' warband composition (maybe this is where the problem is??). Not sure where the idea comes from that order can't do the same. As far as raw damage if you remove the moral part order has the upper hand easily in larger scales. But that is the problem , morales(both defensive and offensive), they dictate the game far too much imo that you can't really adress core issues between the realms without looking at morals.


btw that "bugged" word is really triggering me. all of the tactics are working as intented, they are bugged in Azarael's fail wonderland. that scaler **** was a mistake from beginning. you can check my opinions about it if you're not lazy.
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Bozzax
Posts: 1608

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#85 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:26 pm

Yep Never liked scalers (damage or morale rates)
Last edited by Bozzax on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Collateral
Posts: 850

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#86 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:27 pm

We know order can do the same thing and even better, we said it ourselves, but it seems they are not doing it, no? Or perhaps they are but not effectively, which brings the point back to skill and knowledge. Order can easily get the upper hand now in almost any fight. I agree that in general morales are a problem which is really difficult to balance, especially like this out of the blue.
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sanii
Posts: 184

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#87 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:50 pm

Haojin wrote:
btw that "bugged" word is really triggering me. all of the tactics are working as intented, they are bugged in Azarael's fail wonderland. that scaler **** was a mistake from beginning. you can check my opinions about it if you're not lazy.


Well , considering there are morale pump's that do work under azarael's changes (SH and AM ) and morale pump's that don't (everything else) until the official stance isn't changed i will consider them bugged . This makes it also annoying that one of the best ways destruction can counter early bombs is also affected by the scaler (marauder) . Given the fact that there are so many discrepancies and inconsistencies to what works and what doesn't ( due to the limitations of the client i assume) i can orientate myself towards what is being written as rules of the server.

As far as the scaler is concerned i think that was an attempt to curb small scale abuse of quick m4s, without enough testing time to make it final and working.

And ur issues with the scaler i'm familiar with , but as you said in one of your posts , as long as people don't get used to play with more BWs , and instead bring WLs WHs and SWs en masse, people will continue blaming the thing that is easiest to blame, which a currently not working mechanic as indicated by the rules.

AM being affected by the scaler(and not bugged) makes a lot of trick's that order can throw at you way weaker and scraping the scaler might shine a light on some of the more broken m4s order has access to (m4 knight)
<Pxl> <Luewee> <Fhc> and many many more!
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Bozzax
Posts: 1608

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#88 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:55 pm

One side will allways have access to a Iwinbutton morale bomb regardless how many times or how rates are changed or scaled. (Order or dest).

This by itself means orvr never can be balanced. The one with "the quickest bomb wins". Defensive morale cycles and morale draining maras are all urban myths.

The only long term solution is to control incoming morale damage per second.

Examples
1. Change morale DD to dots
2. Move from fixed damage to % of current health for diminishing returns
3. Hard cap it in code to a max morale dd per second
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 807

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#89 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:08 pm

Can anyone make a list of which morale pumps/tactics work and which are bugged?
I'm getting confused. :D

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wargrimnir
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Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#90 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Feedback matters, we read everything. It would be nice to get it after some days of testing, but such is life I suppose.
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