Patch Notes 15/7/17

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Torquemadra
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Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#41 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:25 am

Wam wrote:If thats true about the change of morale pump tactic for destro tanks so after chosen 2hander was nerfed to undesirable in a warband setting its now time for snb to be heavily nerfed also?

10 sec's cooldown on a "proc" based Tactic slot seems pretty steep overnerf considering the way both sides was originally balanced around morales...

we will see how it pans out but its hard to see equal balancing so far... when "certain classes" remain untouched

Also That is a realm focussed nerf, as any party that doesn't have a chosen or bork in is not worth being in so all of destro get "weakened" whilst order get access to superior lower level morales at a comparatively faster rate to how it was.

I want order to come out and fight hard (I believe they already have the tools) but i don't like to see one side being the unfavoured step child being hanidcapped... Order get many nice tools like healing aura, unlimited ap on healing class that is immune to heal debuffs and can detaunt like no tomorrow... ranged knockdowns, instant m2 damage on bw's...

its like you want us to change our meta and be more restrictive on classes used for warbands instead of variety... then those classes used effeciently will be nerfed next because they kill order too much while destro constructive criticism falls on deaf ears.


You lose all credibility when you come out with crap inferring one side is preferred/neglected , same whines happened when the knight and shadow warrior group critical boosts were nerfed, or when destroy confidence tactic was removed from knights, a 10s cooldown added to pounce, slayer nerfs to shattered limbs and even when I reworked the blackguard (which apparently meant I was super bias to Destro), Im somewhat at a loss to which side Im supposed to be favoring here.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
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Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#42 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:31 am

Tesq wrote:Just wait for patcher....who know what will happen to chosen/kobs......

Start pray the sky is falling


The on/off aura's will be the large target for rework efforts. That should come as absolutely no surprise.
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Wam
Posts: 127

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#43 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:46 am

Spoiler:
Torquemadra wrote:
Wam wrote:If thats true about the change of morale pump tactic for destro tanks so after chosen 2hander was nerfed to undesirable in a warband setting its now time for snb to be heavily nerfed also?

10 sec's cooldown on a "proc" based Tactic slot seems pretty steep overnerf considering the way both sides was originally balanced around morales...

we will see how it pans out but its hard to see equal balancing so far... when "certain classes" remain untouched

Also That is a realm focussed nerf, as any party that doesn't have a chosen or bork in is not worth being in so all of destro get "weakened" whilst order get access to superior lower level morales at a comparatively faster rate to how it was.

I want order to come out and fight hard (I believe they already have the tools) but i don't like to see one side being the unfavoured step child being hanidcapped... Order get many nice tools like healing aura, unlimited ap on healing class that is immune to heal debuffs and can detaunt like no tomorrow... ranged knockdowns, instant m2 damage on bw's...

its like you want us to change our meta and be more restrictive on classes used for warbands instead of variety... then those classes used effeciently will be nerfed next because they kill order too much while destro constructive criticism falls on deaf ears.


You lose all credibility when you come out with crap inferring one side is preferred/neglected , same whines happened when the knight and shadow warrior group critical boosts were nerfed, or when destroy confidence tactic was removed from knights, a 10s cooldown added to pounce, slayer nerfs to shattered limbs and even when I reworked the blackguard (which apparently meant I was super bias to Destro), Im somewhat at a loss to which side Im supposed to be favoring here.


How do I lose credability for having a differing opinion?

One faction is getting a blanket nerf because morale build is a big part of destruction playstyle (yes its strong, its why i mentioned some tools that are very strong that order have and destro do not)

If you do not have a chosen or black ork in your party you are doing something wrong... so every destruction group is getting weakened.

If this is what it takes to get order fighting again... it just feels a bit harsh on destro fringe warband classes because might need to optimize more and have less room for them to make up for drastic changes.
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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
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Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#44 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:03 am

Wam wrote:
Spoiler:
Torquemadra wrote:
Wam wrote:If thats true about the change of morale pump tactic for destro tanks so after chosen 2hander was nerfed to undesirable in a warband setting its now time for snb to be heavily nerfed also?

10 sec's cooldown on a "proc" based Tactic slot seems pretty steep overnerf considering the way both sides was originally balanced around morales...

we will see how it pans out but its hard to see equal balancing so far... when "certain classes" remain untouched

Also That is a realm focussed nerf, as any party that doesn't have a chosen or bork in is not worth being in so all of destro get "weakened" whilst order get access to superior lower level morales at a comparatively faster rate to how it was.

I want order to come out and fight hard (I believe they already have the tools) but i don't like to see one side being the unfavoured step child being hanidcapped... Order get many nice tools like healing aura, unlimited ap on healing class that is immune to heal debuffs and can detaunt like no tomorrow... ranged knockdowns, instant m2 damage on bw's...

its like you want us to change our meta and be more restrictive on classes used for warbands instead of variety... then those classes used effeciently will be nerfed next because they kill order too much while destro constructive criticism falls on deaf ears.


You lose all credibility when you come out with crap inferring one side is preferred/neglected , same whines happened when the knight and shadow warrior group critical boosts were nerfed, or when destroy confidence tactic was removed from knights, a 10s cooldown added to pounce, slayer nerfs to shattered limbs and even when I reworked the blackguard (which apparently meant I was super bias to Destro), Im somewhat at a loss to which side Im supposed to be favoring here.


How do I lose credability for having a differing opinion?

One faction is getting a blanket nerf because morale build is a big part of destruction playstyle (yes its strong, its why i mentioned some tools that are very strong that order have and destro do not)

If you do not have a chosen or black ork in your party you are doing something wrong... so every destruction group is getting weakened.

If this is what it takes to get order fighting again... it just feels a bit harsh on destro fringe warband classes because might need to optimize more and have less room for them to make up for drastic changes.


You'd might as well say MY faction is getting nerfed. Which, is not so subtle for telling us that you don't actually care about the overall health of the game, just that you don't want your overpowered toys to be taken away.

Have some dignity.

Both sides get nerfed. Both sides get reworks. Both sides get buffs. It's just the balance circle of life mate.
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ragafury
Posts: 295

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#45 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:05 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Wam wrote:
Spoiler:
Torquemadra wrote:
You lose all credibility when you come out with crap inferring one side is preferred/neglected , same whines happened when the knight and shadow warrior group critical boosts were nerfed, or when destroy confidence tactic was removed from knights, a 10s cooldown added to pounce, slayer nerfs to shattered limbs and even when I reworked the blackguard (which apparently meant I was super bias to Destro), Im somewhat at a loss to which side Im supposed to be favoring here.


How do I lose credability for having a differing opinion?

One faction is getting a blanket nerf because morale build is a big part of destruction playstyle (yes its strong, its why i mentioned some tools that are very strong that order have and destro do not)

If you do not have a chosen or black ork in your party you are doing something wrong... so every destruction group is getting weakened.

If this is what it takes to get order fighting again... it just feels a bit harsh on destro fringe warband classes because might need to optimize more and have less room for them to make up for drastic changes.


You'd might as well say MY faction is getting nerfed. Which, is not so subtle for telling us that you don't actually care about the overall health of the game, just that you don't want your overpowered toys to be taken away.

Have some dignity.

Both sides get nerfed. Both sides get reworks. Both sides get buffs. It's just the balance circle of life mate.


that's not even about bias, our guild has on both side chars, yes we are mainly a destro oRvR guild, and some of our members playing far more order atm. in there "free time" cause we had an internal arrangement that we level order chars if destro is too boring cause 200 AAO in the lake etc pp. Most don't have such a clear name like Wam or Ragahh.

And Wam is usually not the guy who is like "destro destro destro" or complaining about order OPness.... disliking midgets is more my part. So from his point it's more a honest concern about a over the top nerf. So I don't think any dignity is lost here.

We will see how things workout. A rollback of this "patch" is possible too and this is an alpha so there is room for experimentation. My personal opinion... 10 secs sound like much compared to 3. We will see.
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Glorian
Posts: 2969

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#46 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:23 am

Please read the bug report.
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/9484

The moral Proc tactics are behaving like you fight against 72 enemies. Even if you fight against 24.

That is a bug, not destros unique flavor of moral bombing.

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Hooley
Posts: 71

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#47 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:36 am

Excellent, thank you for your investment in time and work on this.

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Fractus
Posts: 58

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#48 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:38 am

Can I double check, this change, which I am fine with and like the flavor changing every now and then to keep learning how it all works.

In relation to the morale bug report, https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/9484
Now with 10 ICD on Black Orc "you sees me block day" and Chosen "destiny for victory" tactics.

This now for the current period means if destro are in a fight 24 Vs 24 morale gain is now in effect 3 times slower, (10 secs now, 3 secs before) so this fixes the morale gain for 24 Vs 24 previously actually being at the same rate as 72 Vs 72?

Thanks

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saupreusse
Database Developer
Posts: 1423

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#49 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:41 am

If its too much of a nerf things can get tweaked but in the end both factions need a pretty much equal chance on morale pushes without one side completely dominating the other.

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DefinitelyNotWingz
Posts: 286

Re: Patch Notes 15/7/17

Post#50 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:42 am

The math behind the 10s icd is pretty simple.

If morale is in 10 morale/s region, Bolstering Boon pumps 70 morale per cast, scaling up to 250 morale per cast depending on enemies nearby.


Quote by aza.
(250/3,6 = 69,44)

According to this chosen should get 200/3,6 (no modificator)~ 56 moral every 3s which is 185 moral/10s
Unadjusted moral pump gives 200 moral. Now every 10s and it requires only 1 block (not 3,33/10s on a tight schedule). As you can see the 10 s icd is justified. 200>185
Ignoring that the initial tick (off icd) gives the 200/10s version even more of an edge.

Meaning that the 10 icd is still better than the originally intended gain rate.

Spoiler:
Example applies to smallscale, since I dont care about large scale.
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