Client Changelog 08/09/2018

[bloodi]

No. Survivability is lower due to monstro proc and damage is surprisingly low even with spirit damage (BW pressure is like.. 3-5x better, for a rough comparison).

It's better now. Pre-mitigation numbers are on par with Mara with both in moraledrain spec. I suspect post-mitigation will be significantly lower and with more variance due to no equivalent of 50% armorpen tactic.

Meh.. "better" but imo not worth a wb slot still.

I seriously dont know what class are you playing or how does he not having "armor pen tactic" is relevant at all, he does spirit damage with a tactic, which is way better.

Right now, with a setup that helps them (bw, wp, ap battery) in their group, they are theorically the best aoe dps on order, they surely outperform BWs in raw damage and nevermind utility.

So what i am missing here?

[Aurandilaz]

It's better now. Pre-mitigation numbers are on par with Mara with both in moraledrain spec. I suspect post-mitigation will be significantly lower and with more variance due to no equivalent of 50% armorpen tactic.

Meh.. "better" but imo not worth a wb slot still.

I seriously dont know what class are you playing or how does he not having "armor pen tactic" is relevant at all, he does spirit damage with a tactic, which is way better.

Right now, with a setup that helps them (bw, wp, ap battery) in their group, they are theorically the best aoe dps on order, they surely outperform BWs in raw damage and nevermind utility.

So what i am missing here?

go play "theoretically" in rvr and actually try the class in an organized setting

It's still a questionable pick, since you are losing dmg when not picking BW or even a Slayer... the utility might justify one spot, but with nerfed morale gains its questionable if that's needed, one good AoE KD might help, but doesn't decide fight by itself, and it just isn't anywhere near the survivability of maras.
Good BWs with well timed AoE silences and good engi mine placements, or good kotb staggers... you really just don't need a WL - it helps a bit, but at best I'd recommend max 1 or 2 of them for a WB, even then they would have to play flawless ability placements and just the right timing for AoE interrupts.
you hitting in "theory" some target dummies with 0 resis 0 toughness 0 armor 0 initiative doesn't make the class "theoretically awesome".

The spirit dmg only really hurts people with no resis buffs, like the target dummy you like hitting to show how good the class is in theory.

[bloodi]

go play "theoretically" in rvr and actually try the class in an organized setting

Or you could try to disprove the math, i dont know how or when you started thinking that "real game" is any different from the numbers.

Both Bw and WL face magical resistances, both can get other classes to debuff said resistances for them, They are basically facing the same things, yet on paper and in real game too, its not like i didnt **** try it, Wl is getting crazy numbers on situations that are not that hard to find.

But somehow, you think that if you keep repeating that i have to first prove it by making a 24 man warband and find another eqwually skilled 24 man. I dont know if its sad or hilarious to be honest.

You can easily disprove my math yet you are unable to and at the same time demand that i find 47 people more to have some proof while you have yet to give any.

So, once again, enligthen me on what i am missing? What does a WL have to face that a BW does not?

[catholicism198]

go play "theoretically" in rvr and actually try the class in an organized setting

Or you could try to disprove the math, i dont know how or when you started thinking that "real game" is any different from the numbers.

Both Bw and WL face magical resistances, both can get other classes to debuff said resistances for them, They are basically facing the same things, yet on paper and in real game too, its not like i didnt **** try it, Wl is getting crazy numbers on situations that are not that hard to find.

But somehow, you think that if you keep repeating that i have to first prove it by making a 24 man warband and find another eqwually skilled 24 man. I dont know if its sad or hilarious to be honest.

You can easily disprove my math yet you are unable to and at the same time demand that i find 47 people more to have some proof while you have yet to give any.

So, once again, enligthen me on what i am missing? What does a WL have to face that a BW does not?

I don't know where your "math post" is, but one thing people fail to include/factor in is the BW's crit multiplier.
The WL has a +50% tactic but the BW one is significantly better and built into their mechanic:
1-10 Pts: +4% Critical Chance; +10% Critical Damage; 4% Explosion Chance

11-30 Pts: +8% Critical Chance; +20% Critical Damage; 8% Explosion Chance

31-70 Pts: +15% Critical Chance; +40% Critical Damage; 15% Explosion Chance

71-90 Pts: +25% Critical Chance; +80% Critical Damage; 25% Explosion Chance

91-100 Pts: +35% Critical Chance; +100% Critical Damage; 35% Explosion Chance

[lefze]

It's better now. Pre-mitigation numbers are on par with Mara with both in moraledrain spec. I suspect post-mitigation will be significantly lower and with more variance due to no equivalent of 50% armorpen tactic.

Meh.. "better" but imo not worth a wb slot still.

I seriously dont know what class are you playing or how does he not having "armor pen tactic" is relevant at all, he does spirit damage with a tactic, which is way better.

Right now, with a setup that helps them (bw, wp, ap battery) in their group, they are theorically the best aoe dps on order, they surely outperform BWs in raw damage and nevermind utility.

So what i am missing here?

It's simple. Let's assume the target in question has 420 Spirit resists unbuffed, which is 25% mitigation. Slap a resist aura from a chosen with even moderate investment in Discord, and the target is sitting at 710 resist which is 41% mitigation.

A Mara with 300 WS faces 25% mitigation from a target with 3850 armor. With the same stats against a target with 6330 armor, the Mara faces 41% mitigation. Destro also has AoE armor debuffs, which is highly relevant here.

What this goes to show is basically that armor is extremely overrated. I'm not gonna bother doing the math to show how much better a Mara is gonna be against light and medium armor specifically, as Mara is already superior by default against anyone with less than 3850 armor. And seeing as everyone and their grandmother has a resist buff, might aswell have said 6330 armor there.

And you seem to simply not understand just how much DPS a BW puts out. Their tactic powered procs alone are enough to put other bombers to shame.

[Aurandilaz]

go play "theoretically" in rvr and actually try the class in an organized setting

Or you could try to disprove the math, i dont know how or when you started thinking that "real game" is any different from the numbers.

Both Bw and WL face magical resistances, both can get other classes to debuff said resistances for them, They are basically facing the same things, yet on paper and in real game too, its not like i didnt **** try it, Wl is getting crazy numbers on situations that are not that hard to find.

But somehow, you think that if you keep repeating that i have to first prove it by making a 24 man warband and find another eqwually skilled 24 man. I dont know if its sad or hilarious to be honest.

You can easily disprove my math yet you are unable to and at the same time demand that i find 47 people more to have some proof while you have yet to give any.

So, once again, enligthen me on what i am missing? What does a WL have to face that a BW does not?

and since you keep repeating same old, I can repeat, play the actual game if you still haven't figured out why BWs are superior dps pick over aoe WLs into warbands.

[bloodi]

I don't know where your "math post" is, but one thing people fail to include/factor in is the BW's crit multiplier.

viewtopic.php?p=320430#p320430

Thats on max combustion on a BiS gear Bw against a Merc gear Wl, also i get the best possible outcome for the BW while i average it for the Wl, the Wl comes on top.

And you seem to simply not understand just how much DPS a BW puts out. Their tactic powered procs alone are enough to put other bombers to shame.

But i actually gave the numbers and how much that does. Even taking into account RNG and ideal situations for the BW, the numbers a WL can get are simple above them, what the Bw gets in increased proc chance and FP, the wl gets in more than double hits on their channel, increased utility and how on demand it is.

Hell, if people actually tried to disprove it you would have a point with how the BW can keep bombing past the 20 secs mark without much decreased damage while the WL makes up for it not having to ramp up but getting a hit after his buffs go off.

Right now, by itself, a Bw comes on top by a tiny margin, once you put a bw and a wp on the wl group, it starts to get really crazy for the wl, they are really good right now imo both on paper and ingame.

Look, i really cant disprove the math so i rather keep riding this stupid train till it crashes while negating the big one.

Alright, be my guest.

[Sulorie]

viewtopic.php?p=320430#p320430

Thats on max combustion on a BiS gear Bw against a Merc gear Wl, also i get the best possible outcome for the BW while i average it for the Wl, the Wl comes on top.

Turn on time stamps ffs, before posting combat logs.

[Twohandernoob]

WLs and WHs don't have to as good warband picks as BWs. When someone is playing make the optimal warband it won't be a good night for the dragon gunners and spirit echoers. In the meantime WL and WH can actually join a wb and aoe spam, if that's what you're into.

But WH and WL can do non wb **** that BW is not suited for. It's almost balance. Speaking of which:

What do you call a sikh on a tightrope? Balance Singh

[bloodi]

Turn on time stamps ffs, before posting combat logs.

Its a combat log of a channeling skill, what you think i was doing, stopping the channel midway and casting it again and getting the same **** numbers?

When its not, like the one directly under it, i put the timestamps, they are simply cropped in the channeled skills above.