Patch Notes 02/02/2019

[peterthepan3]

Was removing Crashing Wave from the Khaine tree just part of the effort to undo everything Az did while last here, or was there an actual reason for it?

Maybe the aim is to prevent low RR SM to get access to KD utility in the same tree as dps tree ( Khaine). I think now, you need to have higher RR to be able to get all the goodies in Khaine tree ( ED, BA, GWM, PW) and CW and PoH from Hoeth Tree.

Incentivising higher rrs for more spec variety is something that has been factored into the equation, too (similar with BG changes).

[wargrimnir]

There was still no comment on where you want to go with dps am/sham, because currently you turn everything up and down, with no clear direction.
As of late in group fights their dps became too low to be considered viable and at the same time they lost some of their cc.

Some things are just cleaning up ability construction. Some are adjustments to DPS capability for sure.

Moving the AE knockback out of the healing tree was done because it's a disruptable spell, and if you're healing, it is far less likely to be picked up for that mastery as disrupt rates are much higher due to lower INT, and lack of strikethrough tactics being taken in a typical heal build. The AE snare was a logical choice for the healing tree as it does not rely on hitting a target, and since it's a highly desirable spell it got moved up in the tree. Valuable abilities cost more, generally. We've been fairly consistent in trying to either buff, or swap, crap abilities at the tops of mastery trees. The 5pt ability in your heal tree grants a passive healing bonus, which better reflects the dual nature of the class, even if you're going full DPS mode, being low in the tree is fine as it's not a significant pickup for a DPS spec, but it's still useful.

Regarding the DPS capabilities of a healer vs pure DPS class, healers are not the latter. They're not locked out of healing which means they need to be a step back from pure DPS classes. Similar to how tanks are not locked out of Guard when running a 2H dps spec. They have a core class function, short of stripping that out entirely, I can't see how to justify a top tier DPS capability on a healer. Nor would we want to. I would say even with the changes so far, they're at least on par with the "weakest" DPS classes. Not that we particularly tier these things out.

Another very significant piece missing is a fully functioning mechanic which is planned and will be worked on soon. Whether the details of the mechanic are viable I'm not sure yet, so I would rather not go into detail, but vaguely each of the three mastery paths would have their own uses for it. In past iterations it tended to leave the lifetap spec wanting something to do with it.

[Mausini]

Another very significant piece missing is a fully functioning mechanic which is planned and will be worked on soon. Whether the details of the mechanic are viable I'm not sure yet, so I would rather not go into detail, but vaguely each of the three mastery paths would have their own uses for it. In past iterations it tended to leave the lifetap spec wanting something to do with it.

I appreciate that you try to bring AM back into a enjoyable state. Before you open another construction site, would it be possible that you think about one or two of the incremental changes for WL that the team announced some month ago?
Vanilla WL is awful and there are again a lot of really bad tactics, Guardian is a mess and there are only two builds right now.

[Sulorie]

Some things are just cleaning up ability construction. Some are adjustments to DPS capability for sure.

Spoiler:

Moving the AE knockback out of the healing tree was done because it's a disruptable spell, and if you're healing, it is far less likely to be picked up for that mastery as disrupt rates are much higher due to lower INT, and lack of strikethrough tactics being taken in a typical heal build. The AE snare was a logical choice for the healing tree as it does not rely on hitting a target, and since it's a highly desirable spell it got moved up in the tree. Valuable abilities cost more, generally. We've been fairly consistent in trying to either buff, or swap, crap abilities at the tops of mastery trees. The 5pt ability in your heal tree grants a passive healing bonus, which better reflects the dual nature of the class, even if you're going full DPS mode, being low in the tree is fine as it's not a significant pickup for a DPS spec, but it's still useful.

Regarding the DPS capabilities of a healer vs pure DPS class, healers are not the latter. They're not locked out of healing which means they need to be a step back from pure DPS classes. Similar to how tanks are not locked out of Guard when running a 2H dps spec. They have a core class function, short of stripping that out entirely, I can't see how to justify a top tier DPS capability on a healer. Nor would we want to. I would say even with the changes so far, they're at least on par with the "weakest" DPS classes. Not that we particularly tier these things out.

Another very significant piece missing is a fully functioning mechanic which is planned and will be worked on soon. Whether the details of the mechanic are viable I'm not sure yet, so I would rather not go into detail, but vaguely each of the three mastery paths would have their own uses for it. In past iterations it tended to leave the lifetap spec wanting something to do with it.

Thank you for your explanation of thoughts.
Usually I am patient with class changes as it shifts all the time but personally I have the impression, that certain aspects were either ignored or overlooked.
Both classes, shaman or archmage, are the most squishy healer archetype in either heal or dps spec. At this point I ignore class specify tactics or morals as those are not meant to balance certain weak points, they add special traits to a class.
Both classes have a core knockback on a long cooldown with the requirement, that the target is not cc immune. Their 2nd and most used defensive skill is the aoe snare.
I will come to the aoe knockback later, I will just say here, that I don't consider it as personal defense skill. The core absorb shield is removed within a gcd on being attacked, so tools to get distance to attackers is vital for survival. Before there are comments like "get guard", let me say, that this can be added to both sides, therefore I like to keep it out of discussion.
With the last patches you put the most basic defensive tool so high in healing mastery, that you can call a dps build almost a heal spec, because you dump 10 points in a tree not benefiting your main spec. "You made the choice to pick the snare." you could say and this is not even half way true, because for everything but 6vs6 the snare is a must-have, as you have no other reliable tools for defense. You can only skip it in other environments, when you dominate the opposition with your group.
Currently you shifted the balance between heal and dps spec heavily in favour of heal spec, because there you can pick all nice skills without losing anything, while dps spec loses pretty much everything or has to pay a huge price to get only some of their tools back.

You said, that Cleansing Flare could be disrupted and therefore belongs in a dps tree. This is only one side of the coin. Your 1min cd aoe knockback, your silence or ap drain can be disrupted as well, which only highlights the problem of CC on heal spec classes with low intelligence but this is an entirely different story. The range aoe knockback is a highly situational skill as it only shines, when you can punt the targets off a bridge or a cliff. In other circumstances the low knockback distance is only giving free immunities to the enemy. Because of its time-sensitive nature, a 2 second cast time makes it hardly useable and in dps spec you have no tranquillity charges to reduce cast time. In heal spec you have it on demand with 1,2 sec cast time.

The 5pt heal buff scales with willpower and is reduced by your dmg tactic. The one-time heal at low hp is even lower and most likely doesn't even crit and the added 25% heal bless works on isha/mork heals is not worth talking about. 25% of nothing is just slightly more, e.g. unbuffed 170hp hot ticks after healdebuff. Once again it only helps in 6v6, where the snare is not needed and another heal bless comes in handy with a dok-zeal setup, albeit their hard drop in dps might render them a bad pick in dps slot.

Dps healers already had less dps than regular dps classes, when you add the available cc and missing AA dmg for casters to the equation. Their healing was already only good to heal fluff damage and impressive sc scores are based on aoe dmg. Additionally dots give high dmg numbers without adding pressure, granted there are healers.

Their channel cast is once again only good for the 1st tick, which is nothing new and similar to live. Since everything else became worse than on live, I would call the lacking pressure on channel just the icing on the cake and a consequent development. Excuse me for ending this post with a bad vibe but if the dps was considered too high, a sentiment I don't share, there were other ways to fix it than shuffling multiple skills around and breaking long established build and breaking in-class balance of heal and dps spec.

Cheers!

(Typed on phone, sorry if something sounds weird)

[anarchypark]

Spoiler:

Thank you for your explanation of thoughts.
Usually I am patient with class changes as it shifts all the time but personally I have the impression, that certain aspects were either ignored or overlooked.
Both classes, shaman or archmage, are the most squishy healer archetype in either heal or dps spec. At this point I ignore class specify tactics or morals as those are not meant to balance certain weak points, they add special traits to a class.
Both classes have a core knockback on a long cooldown with the requirement, that the target is not cc immune. Their 2nd and most used defensive skill is the aoe snare.
I will come to the aoe knockback later, I will just say here, that I don't consider it as personal defense skill. The core absorb shield is removed within a gcd on being attacked, so tools to get distance to attackers is vital for survival. Before there are comments like "get guard", let me say, that this can be added to both sides, therefore I like to keep it out of discussion.
With the last patches you put the most basic defensive tool so high in healing mastery, that you can call a dps build almost a heal spec, because you dump 10 points in a tree not benefiting your main spec. "You made the choice to pick the snare." you could say and this is not even half way true, because for everything but 6vs6 the snare is a must-have, as you have no other reliable tools for defense. You can only skip it in other environments, when you dominate the opposition with your group.
Currently you shifted the balance between heal and dps spec heavily in favour of heal spec, because there you can pick all nice skills without losing anything, while dps spec loses pretty much everything or has to pay a huge price to get only some of their tools back.

You said, that Cleansing Flare could be disrupted and therefore belongs in a dps tree. This is only one side of the coin. Your 1min cd aoe knockback, your silence or ap drain can be disrupted as well, which only highlights the problem of CC on heal spec classes with low intelligence but this is an entirely different story. The range aoe knockback is a highly situational skill as it only shines, when you can punt the targets off a bridge or a cliff. In other circumstances the low knockback distance is only giving free immunities to the enemy. Because of its time-sensitive nature, a 2 second cast time makes it hardly useable and in dps spec you have no tranquillity charges to reduce cast time. In heal spec you have it on demand with 1,2 sec cast time.

The 5pt heal buff scales with willpower and is reduced by your dmg tactic. The one-time heal at low hp is even lower and most likely doesn't even crit and the added 25% heal bless works on isha/mork heals is not worth talking about. 25% of nothing is just slightly more, e.g. unbuffed 170hp hot ticks after healdebuff. Once again it only helps in 6v6, where the snare is not needed and another heal bless comes in handy with a dok-zeal setup, albeit their hard drop in dps might render them a bad pick in dps slot.

Dps healers already had less dps than regular dps classes, when you add the available cc and missing AA dmg for casters to the equation. Their healing was already only good to heal fluff damage and impressive sc scores are based on aoe dmg. Additionally dots give high dmg numbers without adding pressure, granted there are healers.

Their channel cast is once again only good for the 1st tick, which is nothing new and similar to live. Since everything else became worse than on live, I would call the lacking pressure on channel just the icing on the cake and a consequent development. Excuse me for ending this post with a bad vibe but if the dps was considered too high, a sentiment I don't share, there were other ways to fix it than shuffling multiple skills around and breaking long established build and breaking in-class balance of heal and dps spec.

Cheers!

(Typed on phone, sorry if something sounds weird)

ok few things i wanna point out.

you using divine fury and saying heal is too low.
it's like focused offense tank saying he's not tanky enough.
those skills have uses in other builds.
it's just not for 'your' spec.

cleansing flare -
i found that it's only useful in offensive play, when you need ranged aoe KB.
punt off inner wall to ground was best.
not many classes have it, except morales.
not sure why this skill was in heal tree.
perhaps, to give MoM to dps am?

so basic problem is, egg first or hen first.
dps am design first then am tree follow it.
or am tree first then dps am follow it.

i repsect player's off-spec choices, as long as they accept consequences.

[Sulorie]

ok few things i wanna point out.

you using divine fury and saying heal is too low.
it's like focused offense tank saying he's not tanky enough.
those skills have uses in other builds.
it's just not for 'your' spec.

cleansing flare -
i found that it's only useful in offensive play, when you need ranged aoe KB.
punt off inner wall to ground was best.
not many classes have it, except morales.
not sure why this skill was in heal tree.
perhaps, to give MoM to dps am?

so basic problem is, egg first or hen first.
dps am design first then am tree follow it.
or am tree first then dps am follow it.

i repsect player's off-spec choices, as long as they accept consequences.

I said selfbuffs to increase healing are useless on a dps spec with reduced base healing via dps tactics, and still you get it at the bottom in Isha tree, while skills useful for all specs are high in Isha.

MoM in Vaul was available to all AM specs, as skills like absorb shield are useful in both specs too. Silence was used in both specs too, so skills like Cleansing Flare fit to a multi-use mastery like Vaul.

When I want to punt someone off a wall, like I already mentioned, I need to cast it fast. A dps AM can't do this without spamming heals and then get at least 1 Tranq charge, which is counter-intuitive.

The skill distribution 2 patches ago was perfect, because heal and dps spec were equally viable.

[Ugle]

As for heal spec AM, the AP tactic somewhat made up for low survivability, making heal output good, their trademark. Hopefully incentivising heal spec AMs to still have use of their lifeleech, and per definition their mechanic, would be great. A scaling of willpower on the heal component would remedy this. Not thinking of the semi OP version in previous iteration that had no downside (stacking defensive stats gave better heal output than stacking willpower), but making it more of a glasscannon healer with the inherent risks.

Shammy heal spec is in a better place atm(at least for duo roaming, where you can stack up the hots and racial defensive tactics. For group play, pick a dok and/or zealot.

My opinion ofc

[Sulorie]

AM was broke, you had everything, could do everything all on low hanging fruit

Currently, all this is true for heal spec sham/am, therefore my comment about heal and dps spec balance within class.

Thanks for comment, will wait and see where the journey is going.

[Bowldancer]

Spoiler:

I played Spellbreaker-spec till rr 100 on live and here till rr 82 - it was fine before the overhaul to the "Destroy Confidence"-esque implementation. I disliked the change so much that i quit my Slayer for 2 months.The tree needed some small adjustments but Spellbreaker was not the angle i wished for.

So 10 sec Sl ability > 1m moral absorb choppa

Before Azarael changed Spellbreaker it had no cd - neither on live nor here and it removed the Morale 1 from Choppa.
Back than Slayer mechanic worked on all procs, even Riposte, Slayer Morale 2 "Deadly Determination" had no Timer and Rampage ignored avoidance from Morales and no one ever complained about Giantslayer-spec. People who played it were like unicorns.

It will function properly next patch and pop the absorb shield before any damage is laid down

So basically like before the overhaul. Glad to hear the order of application gets fixed again.

[wachlarz]

Spoiler:

I played Spellbreaker-spec till rr 100 on live and here till rr 82 - it was fine before the overhaul to the "Destroy Confidence"-esque implementation. I disliked the change so much that i quit my Slayer for 2 months.The tree needed some small adjustments but Spellbreaker was not the angle i wished for.

So 10 sec Sl ability > 1m moral absorb choppa

Before Azarael changed Spellbreaker it had no cd - neither on live nor here and it removed the Morale 1 from Choppa.
Back than Slayer mechanic worked on all procs, even Riposte, Slayer Morale 2 "Deadly Determination" had no Timer and Rampage ignored avoidance from Morales and no one ever complained about Giantslayer-spec. People who played it were like unicorns.

It will function properly next patch and pop the absorb shield before any damage is laid down

So basically like before the overhaul. Glad to hear the order of application gets fixed again.

So removing 3 healing spells form enemy every 1 sec its fine for U ? Shaman spend 125 Ap for 3 hots lose 3 sec to cast and U use 1 skill for 20ap and puff all gone its fine ? Tell me any better skill in the game ?