Patch Notes 09/02/2019

[hammerhead]

Order tanks have block increasing tactics and skills as well. I miss your point.

It may be even easier to say, for example - you have some buttons that click on them.

i really dont get your point. i was talking about slayer/choppa, how GTTC is related to BG's block chances?

I also do not understand, like "someone" wrote about bringing the ability to the general rules for all CC. For some reason you called it a "nerf". I dont get it...

[CountTalabecland]

I don’t see why it should follow that the Choppa’s melee pull can’t be changed to operate in the same way as other melee pulls just because Rampage exists. But sure, give choppa rampage idgaf. But that doesn’t mean gttc shouldn’t have to operate by the same reasoning as other pulls. Why is it that everytime choppa/slayer is discussed destro just goes “ bu bu but muh ramapage.”

Maybe it's because GTTC is a 13pt fun skill that needs heavy investment in a garbage tree and is easy to counter and rampage is a 5pt "i **** on a vital game mechanic" button in a core tree.

I can see the argument that Choppa pull should be better than WL/Mara bc of investment. So Sure make GTTC a 5 point ability, i don’t care. All I am saying is that a minimum is built in on WL/Mara so why not Choppa’s melee pull to avoid it being a hard cc in melee as well? I don’t care about rampage, sure give it to choppa whatever. I am not out to nerf your class man, all I am asking is why does the choppa pull behave differently? I wouldn’t even call this change to Mara/WL a nerf as it was supposed to work this way by my reading of the patch notes.

[Ysaran]

Order tanks have block increasing tactics and skills as well. I miss your point.

It may be even easier to say, for example - you have some buttons that click on them.

i really dont get your point. i was talking about slayer/choppa, how GTTC is related to BG's block chances?

I also do not understand, like "someone" wrote about bringing the ability to the general rules for all CC. For some reason you called it a "nerf". I dont get it...

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC

I don’t see why it should follow that the Choppa’s melee pull can’t be changed to operate in the same way as other melee pulls just because Rampage exists. But sure, give choppa rampage idgaf. But that doesn’t mean gttc shouldn’t have to operate by the same reasoning as other pulls. Why is it that everytime choppa/slayer is discussed destro just goes “ bu bu but muh ramapage.”

Maybe it's because GTTC is a 13pt fun skill that needs heavy investment in a garbage tree and is easy to counter and rampage is a 5pt "i **** on a vital game mechanic" button in a core tree.

I can see the argument that Choppa pull should be better than WL/Mara bc of investment. So Sure make GTTC a 5 point ability, i don’t care. All I am saying is that a minimum is built in on WL/Mara so why not Choppa’s melee pull to avoid it being a hard cc in melee as well? I don’t care about rampage, sure give it to choppa whatever. I am not out to nerf your class man, all I am asking is why does the choppa pull behave differently? I wouldn’t even call this change to Mara/WL a nerf as it was supposed to work this way by my reading of the patch notes.

i think that choppa's pull work differently because if it did not do it no one would bother to take it, making the AoE tree absolutelly useless. i understand you point and i can even agree with you about changing GTTC behavior (now is usefull only for interrupt, so not a great utility for 13 pt ability, imo) but this would mean to totally destroy and rebuild the AoE tree, which is a huge amount of work just to modify one ability.

[hammerhead]

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC

Well, the point is that I, too, don’t know how these or other changes appear in classes. I also did not read any rules on this, but I would love to. And the BG was just an example. Let's ask the developers to give some basis so that such disputes no longer arise?

For example, how many Pulls should be on each side at all, because right now the destruction has one more.
As an offer solely for the sake of experimentation, to give GTDC to the SW Assault Stance (which can be considered a trash tree as the least used).

It will be interesting to know the opinion of destruction when a "fun skill" will be directed against them.

[CountTalabecland]

Spoiler:

Order tanks have block increasing tactics and skills as well. I miss your point.

It may be even easier to say, for example - you have some buttons that click on them.

i really dont get your point. i was talking about slayer/choppa, how GTTC is related to BG's block chances?

I also do not understand, like "someone" wrote about bringing the ability to the general rules for all CC. For some reason you called it a "nerf". I dont get it...

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC

Maybe it's because GTTC is a 13pt fun skill that needs heavy investment in a garbage tree and is easy to counter and rampage is a 5pt "i **** on a vital game mechanic" button in a core tree.

I can see the argument that Choppa pull should be better than WL/Mara bc of investment. So Sure make GTTC a 5 point ability, i don’t care. All I am saying is that a minimum is built in on WL/Mara so why not Choppa’s melee pull to avoid it being a hard cc in melee as well? I don’t care about rampage, sure give it to choppa whatever. I am not out to nerf your class man, all I am asking is why does the choppa pull behave differently? I wouldn’t even call this change to Mara/WL a nerf as it was supposed to work this way by my reading of the patch notes.

i think that choppa's pull work differently because if it did not do it no one would bother to take it, making the AoE tree absolutelly useless. i understand you point and i can even agree with you about changing GTTC behavior (now is usefull only for interrupt, so not a great utility for 13 pt ability, imo) but this would mean to totally destroy and rebuild the AoE tree, which is a huge amount of work just to modify one ability.

There probably doesn’t need to be a minimum range on rdps pulls as they aren’t trying to melee people. I guess they could still drop it on the frontline in order to interrupt but at least that still requires a rdps to wander into melee range which is risky. Pulls for melee classes are a huge advantage because they dont need to close the distance with people running away in order to attack. That said, Choppa pull isn’t random when there is only 1 person in range to pull. This especially doesn’t matter in 1v1 or small grp fights in scens when you are in melee range because you can be pretty damn certain that the person within 5ft of you is going to get pulled. Thus why when I read the patch notes I thought to myself, “hey that ‘hard cc’ sounds like what Choppas do when they spam GTDC in melee range.” Whether or not this should be a 13 point ability is debatable. If the ability being changed to have a minimum range “ruins” the tree, then isn’t that admitting that using the ability in melee range is what made it good to begin with?

I wasn’t saying that all pulls need to have a minimum range, only for melee classes that have pulls as everyone knows that a melee class being able to ignore distance (i.e. pounce) and keep people in melee range is a very powerful tool. Where as rdps don’t generally want people right on top of them in melee range so using the pull is a trade off of group utility and risk.

[Ysaran]

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC

Well, the point is that I, too, don’t know how these or other changes appear in classes. I also did not read any rules on this, but I would love to. And the BG was just an example. Let's ask the developers to give some basis so that such disputes no longer arise?

For example, how many Pulls should be on each side at all, because right now the destruction has one more.
As an offer solely for the sake of experimentation, to give GTDC to the SW Assault Stance (which can be considered a trash tree as the least used).

It will be interesting to know the opinion of destruction when a "fun skill" will be directed against them.

i think that balance is a problem of the devs, not our. we, as player, can provide feedback, which need to be supported by number, video and every other proofs we can provide to support our thesis but then are the devs the one that will take decisions. i cant say how removing GTDC will change the balance between factions (because this is what matter, this isnt a 1v1 game, but a MMORPG) and probably the devs cant too. the balance have no rule, there are no criteria, only try and error approach. this kind of dispute NEED to arise because otherway there will be no feedback, no grow. i think there is no bias in the dev's action, if choppa pull is as it is now is just because the past year maked clear that this is the right way to go. in the past 6 month there wasn'nt any major change about choppa/slayer because the two classes are already balanced, and this should be clear since the dev's release a post on the forum (in september/october if i remember well) with the plans for the future balance and inside the post choppa/slayer were barely mentioned.

Spoiler:

It may be even easier to say, for example - you have some buttons that click on them.



I also do not understand, like "someone" wrote about bringing the ability to the general rules for all CC. For some reason you called it a "nerf". I dont get it...

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC

I can see the argument that Choppa pull should be better than WL/Mara bc of investment. So Sure make GTTC a 5 point ability, i don’t care. All I am saying is that a minimum is built in on WL/Mara so why not Choppa’s melee pull to avoid it being a hard cc in melee as well? I don’t care about rampage, sure give it to choppa whatever. I am not out to nerf your class man, all I am asking is why does the choppa pull behave differently? I wouldn’t even call this change to Mara/WL a nerf as it was supposed to work this way by my reading of the patch notes.

i think that choppa's pull work differently because if it did not do it no one would bother to take it, making the AoE tree absolutelly useless. i understand you point and i can even agree with you about changing GTTC behavior (now is usefull only for interrupt, so not a great utility for 13 pt ability, imo) but this would mean to totally destroy and rebuild the AoE tree, which is a huge amount of work just to modify one ability.

There probably doesn’t need to be a minimum range on rdps pulls as they aren’t trying to melee people. I guess they could still drop it on the frontline in order to interrupt but at least that still requires a rdps to wander into melee range which is risky. Pulls for melee classes are a huge advantage because they dont need to close the distance with people running away in order to attack. That said, Choppa pull isn’t random when there is only 1 person in range to pull. This especially doesn’t matter in 1v1 or small grp fights in scens when you are in melee range because you can be pretty damn certain that the person within 5ft of you is going to get pulled. Thus why when I read the patch notes I thought to myself, “hey that ‘hard cc’ sounds like what Choppas do when they spam GTDC in melee range.” Whether or not this should be a 13 point ability is debatable. If the ability being changed to have a minimum range “ruins” the tree, then isn’t that admitting that using the ability in melee range is what made it good to begin with?

I wasn’t saying that all pulls need to have a minimum range, only for melee classes that have pulls as everyone knows that a melee class being able to ignore distance (i.e. pounce) and keep people in melee range is a very powerful tool. Where as rdps don’t generally want people right on top of them in melee range so using the pull is a trade off of group utility and risk.

i agree that pull and pounce are really powerfull ability, and surelly the pull is the main reason why ppl take GTDC i can admit it easilly, the reasons of this are trivial! the reason are trivial because GTDC last 6 second, deal damage every 2 second (for 400 damage more or less) and cover an area of 40 feet radious. if you diminsh the area of effect (of 30% as said by you, which are 12 feet) you will have an ability which deal no damage in a negligible area which can be interrupted, have 30 seconds of CD and cost 14 pt on a mastery tree which dont have nothing more to offer. i dont want to say that GTDC cant be touched, but if you want to dimish is area of effect you need to give something in exchange or to nerf the slayer too. the ability isn't spammable because of CD and often i'm not able the end the channeling because i'm interrupted. i dont even use GTDC because it last 6 seconds only namely since everyone try to interrupt the same second you click the button. if you nerf the pulling power of GTDC you will have an ability which is less usefull then "wild choppin" or "bring it on" that require both zero pt investment

[CountTalabecland]

Spoiler:

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC

Well, the point is that I, too, don’t know how these or other changes appear in classes. I also did not read any rules on this, but I would love to. And the BG was just an example. Let's ask the developers to give some basis so that such disputes no longer arise?

For example, how many Pulls should be on each side at all, because right now the destruction has one more.
As an offer solely for the sake of experimentation, to give GTDC to the SW Assault Stance (which can be considered a trash tree as the least used).

It will be interesting to know the opinion of destruction when a "fun skill" will be directed against them.

i think that balance is a problem of the devs, not our. we, as player, can provide feedback, which need to be supported by number, video and every other proofs we can provide to support our thesis but then are the devs the one that will take decisions. i cant say how removing GTDC will change the balance between factions (because this is what matter, this isnt a 1v1 game, but a MMORPG) and probably the devs cant too. the balance have no rule, there are no criteria, only try and error approach. this kind of dispute NEED to arise because otherway there will be no feedback, no grow. i think there is no bias in the dev's action, if choppa pull is as it is now is just because the past year maked clear that this is the right way to go. in the past 6 month there wasn'nt any major change about choppa/slayer because the two classes are already balanced, and this should be clear since the dev's release a post on the forum (in september/october if i remember well) with the plans for the future balance and inside the post choppa/slayer were barely mentioned.

Spoiler:

sorry to call it a nerf, it's just that i dont know very well the langueage, how do you say when someone propose to turn an entire mastery tree into s***?
Moreove there is no "general rule about CC", i haven't see anywhere the write "all the pull need to have a minimum range", some pull have it some other no. i can be wrong but for what i know engi's pull dont have a minimum range. moreover mara's pull (and engie's pull as well, about WL's pull i dont know) have a bigger range. considered the high pt investement, the max range (only 40 feet against mara 65 feet, and with GTTC you cant even choose who pull, it's random!) and the low damage you need to have a reason to take GTTC. still dont get ow Bg are related to GTTC



i think that choppa's pull work differently because if it did not do it no one would bother to take it, making the AoE tree absolutelly useless. i understand you point and i can even agree with you about changing GTTC behavior (now is usefull only for interrupt, so not a great utility for 13 pt ability, imo) but this would mean to totally destroy and rebuild the AoE tree, which is a huge amount of work just to modify one ability.

There probably doesn’t need to be a minimum range on rdps pulls as they aren’t trying to melee people. I guess they could still drop it on the frontline in order to interrupt but at least that still requires a rdps to wander into melee range which is risky. Pulls for melee classes are a huge advantage because they dont need to close the distance with people running away in order to attack. That said, Choppa pull isn’t random when there is only 1 person in range to pull. This especially doesn’t matter in 1v1 or small grp fights in scens when you are in melee range because you can be pretty damn certain that the person within 5ft of you is going to get pulled. Thus why when I read the patch notes I thought to myself, “hey that ‘hard cc’ sounds like what Choppas do when they spam GTDC in melee range.” Whether or not this should be a 13 point ability is debatable. If the ability being changed to have a minimum range “ruins” the tree, then isn’t that admitting that using the ability in melee range is what made it good to begin with?

I wasn’t saying that all pulls need to have a minimum range, only for melee classes that have pulls as everyone knows that a melee class being able to ignore distance (i.e. pounce) and keep people in melee range is a very powerful tool. Where as rdps don’t generally want people right on top of them in melee range so using the pull is a trade off of group utility and risk.

i agree that pull and pounce are really powerfull ability, and surelly the pull is the main reason why ppl take GTDC i can admit it easilly, the reasons of this are trivial! the reason are trivial because GTDC last 6 second, deal damage every 2 second (for 400 damage more or less) and cover an area of 40 feet radious. if you diminsh the area of effect (of 30% as said by you, which are 12 feet) you will have an ability which deal no damage in a negligible area which can be interrupted, have 30 seconds of CD and cost 14 pt on a mastery tree which dont have nothing more to offer. i dont want to say that GTDC cant be touched, but if you want to dimish is area of effect you need to give something in exchange or to nerf the slayer too. the ability isn't spammable because of CD and often i'm not able the end the channeling because i'm interrupted. i dont even use GTDC because it last 6 seconds only namely since everyone try to interrupt the same second you click the button. if you nerf the pulling power of GTDC you will have an ability which is less usefull then "wild choppin" or "bring it on" that require both zero pt investment

I do not mean to “diminish” it. I am saying that it should have a minimum (12ft, maybe 10 for a nice clean number) distance like the other two melee pull abilities so that it would operate from 12-40 ft as mara/wl now operates 20-65 which is the same ratio. Like Mara/WL you would then have a interruptable channel while moving melee pull with a minimum range. Maybe that isn’t worth the 13 point investment but that just means the investment amount req should change, not the mechanic of how the ability works.

Just saying that if the intent of the WL/Mara change was to prevent mdps from using pulls as hard cc in melee range, then as it stands Choppa can still use a pull in melee range as hard cc. If WL/Mara got changed bc the way the pull was working was not as intended, why should the Choppa one still work that way?
Edit: Not against Choppa being reworked. My original greivance here was that this requires WL/Mara to change the way they play but not Choppa even though Choppa can also do the same thing that got changed for Mara/WL.

[Sulorie]

Did I just read, that SW melee tree is trash?

[hammerhead]

i think that balance is a problem of the devs, not our. we, as player, can provide feedback, which need to be supported by number, video and every other proofs we can provide to support our thesis but then are the devs the one that will take decisions.

What you say makes no sense at all. If the balance does not have any rules and principles, then asking for numbers has no meaning.

Honestly, I don't care about the balance, only the blind will not see how the desi passes through order like a knife through butter for the past six months. I just didn’t like how the two of you aggressively attacked the guy who asked a very logical question and never offended anyone.

Did I just read, that SW melee tree is trash?

For sure! I read the same thing with a page earlier about Choppa AOE tree ... prove by numbers the opposite.

[Ugle]

Did I just read, that SW melee tree is trash?

I agree, it is in dire need of a massive buff