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Patch Notes 17/08/2019

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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#11 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:45 am

Natherul wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 am
wonshot wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:30 am Hmmm. First of all thanks for the 2x event. We saw a lot of progression and activity, but cant wait for things to calm down a little :P

Meatball changes... Not sure what to think tbh. I played mine and get 4 piece invader on it. And the Class sure seem strong, but I wouldnt say its the damage output that was over the top. To be honest it was more the stickingpower, escape ability after overdiving, free tankiness, on demand cc, and acces to enemy backline for cooldownincreaser. Mixed with the damage.

Honestly, people were not really too loud about Meatballs dealing too much damage, it was more so all of the above imho. And if this "unintended bugg" was lasting for 4 months or so, and the playerbase was enjoying the class and not finding the damage numbers too absurd, maybe just accept that it wasnt intentional and just go with it? And then tune down the utility and sticking power. like get rid of the spamable bounce, or disable the self-punt while in melee form. That way Meatballs can do a Kaboom when in deep-**** and then do the selfpunt while outside of SquigArmor for a little bit of an opening in their armor.

Even as an Ordermain, it blown my mind how SH is getting this "nerf" but WL still remains untouched. Come on now, even Order knows WL is bonkers. (in b4 comments like "just detaunt")
The SH change was mostly down to those 2 tactics able to restack themselves over and over. And since they were never intended to stack anyway thats why we did what we did.
Manatikik wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:26 am So the new SC changes mean if you dominate the enemy you get less rewards?

Also for just 12 kills will that be enough for the likes of Battle for Praag and Gromril Crossing?
I will monitor and change as needed. But yes, less rewards if you farm kills and dont play objective.

Are you guys open to adjusting the points given from certain mechanics? Specifically the likes of Talabec Dam where even if you play the part you only get 75 points and open yourself to retribution; imo for run the part SC's shouldn't 4 runs maximum (ie 125 points a capture for Talabec and Howling Gorge).
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Natherul
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Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#12 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:45 am

wonshot wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:39 am
Natherul wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 am
The SH change was mostly down to those 2 tactics able to restack themselves over and over. And since they were never intended to stack anyway thats why we did what we did.
That is perfectly fine. I just wish this example was not a case of the mindset being locked at "we didnt intent for this, so it shouldnt be!" Other mmos have had plenty of these cases where something was shipped with one intention, and then an unintended result happend and the deves just went "huh, alright lets just go with it then"

The endless stacking between the two tactics ofc shouldnt be a case, absolutely agree with that.
Anyways your house, your rules and thanks for your time and efforts as always.
As Grunbag mentioned we will look over the SH and if they really need more damage after this change we will look into adding more scaling on those abilities. Having to stack 2 25% damage increase tactics is not how something should be.
Manatikik wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:45 am
Natherul wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 am
wonshot wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:30 am Hmmm. First of all thanks for the 2x event. We saw a lot of progression and activity, but cant wait for things to calm down a little :P

Meatball changes... Not sure what to think tbh. I played mine and get 4 piece invader on it. And the Class sure seem strong, but I wouldnt say its the damage output that was over the top. To be honest it was more the stickingpower, escape ability after overdiving, free tankiness, on demand cc, and acces to enemy backline for cooldownincreaser. Mixed with the damage.

Honestly, people were not really too loud about Meatballs dealing too much damage, it was more so all of the above imho. And if this "unintended bugg" was lasting for 4 months or so, and the playerbase was enjoying the class and not finding the damage numbers too absurd, maybe just accept that it wasnt intentional and just go with it? And then tune down the utility and sticking power. like get rid of the spamable bounce, or disable the self-punt while in melee form. That way Meatballs can do a Kaboom when in deep-**** and then do the selfpunt while outside of SquigArmor for a little bit of an opening in their armor.

Even as an Ordermain, it blown my mind how SH is getting this "nerf" but WL still remains untouched. Come on now, even Order knows WL is bonkers. (in b4 comments like "just detaunt")
The SH change was mostly down to those 2 tactics able to restack themselves over and over. And since they were never intended to stack anyway thats why we did what we did.
Manatikik wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:26 am So the new SC changes mean if you dominate the enemy you get less rewards?

Also for just 12 kills will that be enough for the likes of Battle for Praag and Gromril Crossing?
I will monitor and change as needed. But yes, less rewards if you farm kills and dont play objective.

Are you guys open to adjusting the points given from certain mechanics? Specifically the likes of Talabec Dam where even if you play the part you only get 75 points and open yourself to retribution; imo for run the part SC's shouldn't 4 runs maximum (ie 125 points a capture for Talabec and Howling Gorge).
Open yes, though only after real hard contemplation and analyzing. The idea is that a good SC will run close to its end timer and as such the objectives should not reward too much.

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Onemantankwall
Posts: 523

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#13 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:57 am

wonshot wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:30 am Hmmm. First of all thanks for the 2x event. We saw a lot of progression and activity, but cant wait for things to calm down a little :P

Meatball changes... Not sure what to think tbh. I played mine and get 4 piece invader on it. And the Class sure seem strong, but I wouldnt say its the damage output that was over the top. To be honest it was more the stickingpower, escape ability after overdiving, free tankiness, on demand cc, and acces to enemy backline for cooldownincreaser. Mixed with the damage.

Honestly, people were not really too loud about Meatballs dealing too much damage, it was more so all of the above imho. And if this "unintended bugg" was lasting for 4 months or so, and the playerbase was enjoying the class and not finding the damage numbers too absurd, maybe just accept that it wasnt intentional and just go with it? And then tune down the utility and sticking power. like get rid of the spamable pounce, or disable the self-punt while in melee form. That way Meatballs can do a Kaboom when in deep-**** and then do the selfpunt while outside of SquigArmor for a little bit of an opening in their armor.

Even as an Ordermain, it blown my mind how SH is getting this "nerf" but WL still remains untouched. Come on now, even Order knows WL is bonkers. (in b4 comments like "just detaunt")
Welcome to the destro nerf train pull up a half burnt chair (damn bws) next to my handicapped chosen and we'll watch 1 side over perform over the other unless robotically running fulltard meta.

Its a rather fun show watching destro deal with both mirror over performance and numbers disadvantage.

But hey least they look cool ;)
Lots of alts, more alts for the alt gods!

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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#14 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:58 am

Spoiler:
Natherul wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:45 am
wonshot wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:39 am
Natherul wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 am
The SH change was mostly down to those 2 tactics able to restack themselves over and over. And since they were never intended to stack anyway thats why we did what we did.
That is perfectly fine. I just wish this example was not a case of the mindset being locked at "we didnt intent for this, so it shouldnt be!" Other mmos have had plenty of these cases where something was shipped with one intention, and then an unintended result happend and the deves just went "huh, alright lets just go with it then"

The endless stacking between the two tactics ofc shouldnt be a case, absolutely agree with that.
Anyways your house, your rules and thanks for your time and efforts as always.
As Grunbag mentioned we will look over the SH and if they really need more damage after this change we will look into adding more scaling on those abilities. Having to stack 2 25% damage increase tactics is not how something should be.
Manatikik wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:45 am
Natherul wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 am

The SH change was mostly down to those 2 tactics able to restack themselves over and over. And since they were never intended to stack anyway thats why we did what we did.



I will monitor and change as needed. But yes, less rewards if you farm kills and dont play objective.

Are you guys open to adjusting the points given from certain mechanics? Specifically the likes of Talabec Dam where even if you play the part you only get 75 points and open yourself to retribution; imo for run the part SC's shouldn't 4 runs maximum (ie 125 points a capture for Talabec and Howling Gorge).
Open yes, though only after real hard contemplation and analyzing. The idea is that a good SC will run close to its end timer and as such the objectives should not reward too much.

Well wouldn't the theory be that an even SC should take roughly 12-15 minutes but if you're dominating AND doing the objective effectively it ends pretty quick? I think the best example of this is Phoenix Gate; it's easy to get a rumble and tumble even fight for 15 minutes but if you are winning the part gives a sizeable point bump that both teams appreciate. This is all imo of course but shouldn't the aim not to be to punish the team for winning by a lot with less rewards or uncontested part running boringness.

This all being said its great to see some attention being brought to SC's.
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Orontes
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Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#15 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:37 am

Grunbag wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:35 am Balancing with outgoing damage % will just hide the problem of the spec, if the class underperforming without a outgoing damage increase then the tree is bad . Now the tactics work as intended and if the spec underperform we better look at base damage or abilities from Bouncin tree.
How is underperforming measured: less people playing the class? This change is amazing to me as I don't recall seeing any large scale protests about mSH damage output.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#16 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:38 am

So if you dominate your enemy in SC, you will get rewarded less for doing so...? This seems counter-intuitive and actually deters you for even trying to outplay your enemy.

When you factor in how mediocre SC gear is, coupled with the grind itself, it begs the question: why make it (potentially) even grindier? This could serve to be yet another nail in the coffin for groups.

Noone sets out to ignore objectives, but if you dominate the enemy, outplay them, and put them in a position that they can't come back from, you shouldn't be penalised for doing so; in fact, the opposition should use their initiative and get organised themselves (or queue PuG SC).

If dominating SC (i.e outplaying opposition) ends up in a significantly longer grind, then it is time to disband your 6mans and queue for that lovely PuG SC again.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Gangan
Posts: 652

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#17 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:41 am

Pächter des Wahnsinns
Gangan - SH 75 .... Blumnmoscha - BO 63
Scophis - Zealot 73 .... Drengur - WP 64
Iznogoud - Sham 50+ .... Bixo - Engie 50+
Apogemoth - Magus 40+ .... Loarelle - AM 65
originating from Drakenwald

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Targhor
Posts: 26

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#18 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:43 am

peterthepan3 wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:38 am
Noone sets out to ignore objectives, ...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#19 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:50 am

Calling msh a high-performing class when the class is virtually non-existent in serious 6v6 proves clearly how out of touch the person in charge of balance is.

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Arthem
Posts: 253

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#20 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:50 am

Laughable scenario domination changes.

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