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Patch Notes 17/08/2019

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#131 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:02 am

Targhor wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:29 am
peterthepan3 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:14 am
@Targhor

Sorry, but if you get outplayed consistently and don't do anything about it, that is your problem; the people doing the outplaying (be it either PvP or Objective-based - or both) shouldn't be penalised to appease you.
wow, look at this awesome magic trick, pulling a "consistently getting outplayed" out of a nowhere-hat.
i´m sure nobody will notice that.
bravo!

and repeating an opinion, after its been pointed out as being one, will surely add more value to it, so it becomes a valid argument instead.
bravo #2!
Winners should not be penalised to appease losers, lel. This ain't an opinion; just simple logic in a game that revolves around killing other players, and progression. It's pure banga banga to suggest otherwise, m8.

bravo #69
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Natherul
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Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#132 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:04 am

Hotfix notes added for this mornings hotfix
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nat3s
Posts: 101

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#133 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:12 am

Natherul wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:34 am
nat3s wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:53 am
Natherul wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:58 am
This may get a lot of hate but anyone stating that unless someone participate in the 6v6 community their thoughts on balance is diminished or even ignored needs to stop. That elitist mindset is unwarranted and totally unwanted.

@scottx125
Problem with the old system is that its actively encouraging players to ignore objective and farm kills because of the scoreup. That is an affront to how things are supposed to be dealt with and as such had to go.

Elitist mindset is unhelpful and people like Pete have annoyed me no end over time.

My big concern with these changes, and this was discussed on Zarbix stream yesterday, is the devs don't seem to understand the true state of of balance at present. The mSH change is bizarre, they were not overperforming and there are far stronger classes that need toning down (WL, aSW, Slayer, dps DoK). A 25% net loss is also a drastic change which cannot be overcome by slotting a different tactic.

Zarbix is calm and measured most of the time, it's the first time I've seen him perplexed at the design direction.

Is there any chance of a balance Q&A or forum post that would provide some context as there must be a wider direction that's justifying these tweaks e.g. could it be that whilst testing the new city siege gear that mSH scaled better than expected OR mSH is being turned into a WL mirror (yes please!!) - anything like that where people can understand the decision making would really help instill confidence.
As we stated (both in that stream and here), we are monitoring it and we have already a few ideas on how to fix it should it be needed. The whole situation with 2 tactics with straight % damage increases needed is just plain bad design and shows a problem in the core of the career. However it should be noted that when we look at it we look at more then just damage output of the SH, we look at mobility, defense, single target dmg and aoe dmg.

If you consider mobility, defense and dmg, what led you to a mSH change? That sounds like you're leaning towards nerfing WL - which i think would be good for the game if that's what you're inferring. The outliers are currently WL, aSW, slayer and melee DoK. You don't achieve balance by looking at classes in silo. Think about it, aSW is way more powerful than mSH, it doesn't make sense to levy a hefty 25% nerf on the latter without touching the former.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#134 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:28 am

Not sure I understand the reasoning or relevance behind (barely) increasing the timer of the bomb's explosion? Issue with bomb scenarios has always been the small number of points you are rewarded when factoring in prerequisites (running a mile, not being obstructed, not having a single DoT on you, etc).
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Natherul
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Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#135 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:32 am

peterthepan3 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:28 am
Not sure I understand the reasoning or relevance behind (barely) increasing the timer of the bomb's explosion? Issue with bomb scenarios has always been the small number of points you are rewarded when factoring in prerequisites (running a mile, not being obstructed, not having a single DoT on you, etc).
Thats something that we are looking at changing in the future but was not in this hotfix. The reason is because the timer could be very tight to get there in time.
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Arbich
Posts: 542

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#136 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:34 am

As Wagrimmir already mentioned, the new domination-mechanic needs a lot more work. I agree to the point why it was implemented, but it may have to many bad side effects. Forming groups should not be punished in a MMO. The old domination system was already punishing due to lower rewards when dominating. The shorter duration (=more scenarios) has no pratical use, due to slow pops. Add the point that by design you should stay in capital while doing scs (because of sc-quests), means you net less rewards as a group then as a solo queuing only pug-sc. In a MMO where it is about playing together, the whole design about scenarios looks like a mess.

Even in pug vs pug the new domination don´t work as intended. Came late in a talabec damm sc, where enemy was camping our spawn (but didn´t score much kills). After a while we pushed them back (some of the enemies where transporting keg), scored a few kills, domination starts for us and we lost (less points, cause enemy had scored a few kegs). In no way we were dominating.

In other scenarios the dominations don´t starts, even when it should. So the new system is as arbitrary as the old one and add some negative side effects (shorten engaging, balanced and interesting fights). Maybe get rid of this whole domination system altogether?

nat3s wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:53 am
My big concern with these changes, and this was discussed on Zarbix stream yesterday, is the devs don't seem to understand the true state of of balance at present. The mSH change is bizarre, they were not overperforming and there are far stronger classes that need toning down (WL, aSW, Slayer, dps DoK). A 25% net loss is also a drastic change which cannot be overcome by slotting a different tactic.

Zarbix is calm and measured most of the time, it's the first time I've seen him perplexed at the design direction.
Whats actually bizzare is calling the situation before fix/nerf fine by zarbix and others in this thread.
While the AoE damage was not yet overperforming, adding the nasty debuffs/interupts and utility it was in no way balanced (risk&reward?).
And calling SH fine because other classes are op and should be nerfed, isnt a really good argument (still better than the "you didn´t do 6vs6 muh..." one, though ;) )
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2719

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#137 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:36 am

Are you seriously gonna prevent certain tactics to be slotted together now? This goes completly againt the core principles of tactics tbh. And you say you want a more clean perception for new players, so they can connect the dots of how the logistics behind the combat mechanics work and then you create an exception that breaks the logic of how tactics can be slotted, in one specific case.

Common. You either have rules that follows consistancy across the board or you make a class who's entire consistancy thing is that it breaks the consistancy of all other classes and mechanics.
Last edited by roadkillrobin on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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flintboth
Posts: 439

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#138 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:36 am

Interesting, thank you patching and hotfix.
test monkey 076 (test failure)

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#139 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:37 am

Natherul wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:32 am
peterthepan3 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:28 am
Not sure I understand the reasoning or relevance behind (barely) increasing the timer of the bomb's explosion? Issue with bomb scenarios has always been the small number of points you are rewarded when factoring in prerequisites (running a mile, not being obstructed, not having a single DoT on you, etc).
Thats something that we are looking at changing in the future but was not in this hotfix. The reason is because the timer could be very tight to get there in time.
Cheers for explanation!
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Arguetlam
Posts: 9

Re: Patch Notes 17/08/2019

Post#140 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:44 am

nat3s wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:12 am
The outliers are currently WL, aSW, slayer and melee DoK. You don't achieve balance by looking at classes in silo. Think about it, aSW is way more powerful than mSH, it doesn't make sense to levy a hefty 25% nerf on the latter without touching the former.
Could I have your reasoning behind the Ddok comment ? they have little to no mobilities. They sure have a good dps and utilities for a party, but not more than a lot of other classes. So why is it on this list ?

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