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Patch Notes 04/01/2020

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Kaiza
Posts: 5

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#131 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:38 am

All I humbly ask of the Dev team, is please let go of the idea of "Mirror Balance/Parity"
Each class and its faction opposite are Similar yet unique. Have strengths and weaknesses unto themselves.
Both crying from the public about X is OP compared to Y, make them even, and Devs knee jerking from these reactions, is one of the reasons Live died as soon as it did IMHO. When it comes to Morale balance and other mechanics that affect the entire playerbase and the natural flow of battle, I will defer to your wisdom. But the Parity changes to Chosen and Knight are misguided. Please let us, as the playerbase, enjoy each class for what they are. Their flavor, style, and strengths and weaknesses all. No one I can think of wants to play a Magus and say "Wow this feels exactly like an engineer". In my experience, Chosen was always better offessively and Knight was better defensively.

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Bram
Posts: 27
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Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#132 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:10 am

Can I inturupt you cry babies a moment. How do i see how big my ... I mean.. How do i see the scenario stats?
I used to be able to click the extended option but now I can't, as far as i know that is, for some reason the only way to view numbers and names etc.

As far as new knight goes - Sorry I posted those ridiculous stats before?
Now i hit the same but have **** tonne less parry and spec up a stupid tree.

Chosen dps was mainly spirit without a tactic so ... no change beside the only thing chosen had over a knight is taken away. Chosen could get burst without needing to parry. It was small and forgivable. RIP

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Ototo
Posts: 938

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#133 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:50 am

I have been playing one day with the changes: 0 tanks of a total of around 7 scenarios. Literally, not a single tank in order in Nordenwatch. 4 tanks in a 24 player WB was the MAXIMUM number I saw today. I was even part of a WB with 0 tanks out of 20 players.

Really, people, I don't know who told you that such a huge amount of changes in a class was a good idea, but it definitely wasn't. You should probably reconsider this changes to an already minor class like is an order tank.

Played as WH and A-SW, Chosens everywhere parrying to the point of stupidity. I was faced by a non-40, which given that was 1 vs 2x 40/50 he should have died, instead we got trolled by constant parries.

Honestly, this changes need to be rethought and checked. Right now they only benefit one side.
Spoiler:

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Gracely
Posts: 106

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#134 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:54 am

randomeclipse wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:07 pm
satanicomoderno wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:37 pm
And Order gets more nerf as usual. Nothing to see here. RIP Kotbs.
I don't see any Engi, WL or SW nerfs...your point is mute.

I'm not sure it's possible to nerf a SW.

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Mattia1981
Posts: 56

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#135 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:22 am

Jastojan wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:39 pm
satanicomoderno wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:37 pm
And Order gets more nerf as usual. Nothing to see here. RIP Kotbs.
here we go... all players are blind when it comes to "their" fraction...
No matter how strong is your class compared to the opposite class. No matter how strong is your side. When you see your side is getting to be more optimized to get fractions more balanced, it is HUGE nerf in your eyes. I played destro mostly and my chars were nerfed many times... Mara, SH... should I cry now?

I quit playing this game because of few reasons (toxicity and behaviour of few (one especially) highest ranked players, some big changes like aoe cap, forts, etc.) but I was thinking about going back to the game... but I cant do it because, yes, there is an imbalance in this game and players will ALWAYS complain and I cant go through it (I had time to think about it and see it clearer and when you see GMs playing one side mostly, it could make you feel... not very happy when you hope there will come some real balance changes in the future). And it was a good decision to quit because I dont want to brake their vision of the game. This game is a gem, but it is not for everyone (like me). As Wargrimmir wrote in this thread - balance changes will bring big wave of hate and it will be realy hard to make decent changes while you (as a dev) are being hated. I hope devs will have patience with all the changes they planned and wish them to have power to make this game much better - I LOVED solo ranked scenarios and it was such a nice idea to make better rewards for win in these rankeds - just example. But I see now, that if I stay and play the game right now, I will become that type of person I never wanted to be. I cant imagine how hard is it to make big decisions here and explain changes to the players etc. So I decide to accept the game as it is and leave it, because it is not for me. That is my point of view.
Being obsessed by aequilibrium, -forgive the oxymoron- my anger grows immensely when see the obvious avoidable nerf/buffs. For the other things i agree with all you said Jastojan: some players bad behavious, highest rr players, and the chance to become exactly as the kind of players that i would never meet nowhere. I became a toxic game addicted. Moreover related to some of my posts about this patch a missunderstood with wargrimmnir. The therapy is a break when not definitive abandonment. As all therapies, you can' t go with the hardcore of it expecting no lashback, so would be a nice idea lowering the playing time step by step - this is one of the points i line always to everyone in the server i play sng dungron /scenario if just i realize they fead chat too and not only run for kills: the system forces people to get addicted (endgame gear, and renown rank grind are just two aspects of it, but everyone has its own mind set to win any game (expecially competitives ones like this/chess and so on ); So the games in general pry up on the human innate predisposition to play any sort of game and despite everyone should have enough responsibility for a modest and proper use of them, you must blame yourself not too much due the actual system seems to get the purpose to acquiring this kind of players - addicted- . If this isn' t their purpose as i guess but they love the Games Worshop Word online they could be opened to suggestions. Balancies are other issues.

Sulorie
Posts: 4346

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#136 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:40 am

Ototo wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:50 am
I have been playing one day with the changes: 0 tanks of a total of around 7 scenarios. Literally, not a single tank in order in Nordenwatch. 4 tanks in a 24 player WB was the MAXIMUM number I saw today. I was even part of a WB with 0 tanks out of 20 players.

Really, people, I don't know who told you that such a huge amount of changes in a class was a good idea, but it definitely wasn't. You should probably reconsider this changes to an already minor class like is an order tank.

Played as WH and A-SW, Chosens everywhere parrying to the point of stupidity. I was faced by a non-40, which given that was 1 vs 2x 40/50 he should have died, instead we got trolled by constant parries.

Honestly, this changes need to be rethought and checked. Right now they only benefit one side.
Where there healer changes too I didn't notice? Had little healers yesterday on destro side and often 7/12 tanks in sc. In short, random matchmaking is random and little numbers of a certain archetype have no balance reasons. People just want to progress with a certain class and don't care about over scenario setups, I mean "the other people will log tank, I don't have to".
Dying is no option.

heybaws
Posts: 39

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#137 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:08 pm

Detangler wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:46 am
You know it's the same as chosen aura now, right? Sucks to be as broken as a destro toon
The issue is, Chosen recieving Kotbs buffs, while kotbs only recieve nerfs. All sarcasm from "proud to play only 1 realm" only makes you look stupid. Chosen have self morale pump, self 10% anticrit, self 50% parry buff (it can save a LOT of renown points for something else, in case if you didn't got it), AoE wounds debuff without 2hander equiped, and now he got Kotbs runefang, while Kotbs himself got his runefang nerfed and placed in useless spot while Kotbs aura also got dragged down to chosen level. Yeah keep telling how destro is weaker, you totally know better.

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wonshot
Posts: 490

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#138 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:14 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:17 pm

Dragon gun/OYK is balanced based on the Mara drain that we feel is already at an appropriate level.
You get 225 from Mara, you get 250 (net change of +125/-125) from DG/OYK, 300/300 was way too high.
Balancing it was a totally separate conversation from the reason why it was brought up in the first place.

It makes sence that a drain that is also pumping shouldbe be on the same value level as a RNG drain, even if the Dragongun has a cooldown. I completly agree, the frustration from Order (mainly) right now is that the realm-wide morale game is massively swung in destros favors (not a case that is isolated an issue but when they have utility advantage + pump+ drain advantage the issue becomes a massive deal)

Just looking at the list on the wiki, several nerfs have hit the Order drains the last few months:
https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/inde ... ale_Drains

(largescale point of view)

-Solarflare (meme) is only useable in funnel situations, an is correctly only 9 targets (boring mechanic and should be flat ammount imo)
-Dragongun 10sec cooldown (5sec with WW from SM) super wide cone and VERY potent but now got nerfed on the drain instead of the pump, where as the other way was needed to keep it in line in terms of numbers.
-Iirc the sm meme morale was changed aswel but noone ever uses it due to it barely stop the natural gain let alone the many classes with selfpump on destro, so no value in ever useing this.
-Burning head, yet an other example on a class that is overstacked. BW shouldnt both have a pump and a drain, while being the best offensive groupbuffer AND aoe dps-role on Order.

The list on that wiki is very simply showing that Destro have morale advantage even if the list is outdated. And that is okay, things shouldnt be mirrored and perfect ballance will never occure without mirroring I think most of us accept that and like it this way!
But as I said, when Order has this limmited tools to fight the long list of pumps and drains on Destro, while taking in further nerfs to our very limmited ways of attempting to drain morales after being morale starved for months facing 3 drain mara comps. Then the tears will come out, because the situation is just not fun.. or ballanced.

Fighting with no morales vs full moralesarsinal available is just absurd.. trying to chew through Distracting bellow routationg on cooldown just knowing if your raw ability damage is not killing keytargets in 24v24 or largescale, the morale dump willl for sure come in from the combined Sorc M2 shatter or Mara Greatfang dump about 30sec into the clash. The wincondition here is just unmatched because of too limmited draining options to fight the mara drain.

But we have mentioned this for months now, Destro have admitted too that this is just not very balanced (but winning is fun ofc) but all it took was 3days to fix this for 6man balance, but instead leave realmbalance for largescale hanging for months.

suggestion: bring the WH/WE drain back to previousvalues and tone down the grouppump effect instead.
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heybaws
Posts: 39

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#139 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:52 pm

RvR balance was dragged in destro favor a long time ago with Shatter m2 implementted as offencive morale for sorcs. Since then desto was allowed to drop morales with black orks, sorcs and maras, and all order counter was bright wizard. Situation become even worse with 24 AoE cap which allowed maras to drain an entire warband instead of 8 tanks and 1 random dps. So what do we have now? 1 side can morale bomb with black orks, marauders and sorcs, while chosens keep enemy under defencive 50% dmg reduction m2 for whole fight, and other side can't even reach m1, and you nerfed the only option for this side to drain enemy morale.
At this point i want to ask all "big brains" that whined about focused mending tactic one thing: maybe only 1 side have grp 15% heal buff for a reason? Maybe initial balance team knew better how to balance things out than you?
And to add that morale imbalance all other sorts of utility destro have, like several aoe punts without any immunity for suffered targets, 2 group cooldown reductions that also easier to drop compared to only 1 order mirror, spammable aoe snares with disorient debuff on it, shatter limbs on a character with pounce.
The list is huge, and in current circumstances nerfs of any order warband utility simply because destro doesn't have the exact mirror seems extremly shortsighted, and dare i say, biased.

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live4treasure
Posts: 267

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#140 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:58 pm

I don't really play the reworked classes, but if this debuff to healing taken doesn't stack with healdebuffs, then Chosen got a significantly better deal out of this rework, and I don't see the reason for that. What's more, % damage taken will always be significantly more of a drawback than a reduction of healing taken, because of the way burst works and the momentum it generates in a fight.

Not to mention, this change to Daemonclaw and Runefang is unbalanced from the perspective of 6v6, where offensive stats for a tank reign supreme, meaning that this is essentially an advantage destruction will have over order in ranked matches.

These changes seem to almost deceptively favor chosen far more, and seem like a straight nerf to kotbs. That's my 2c.
Last edited by live4treasure on Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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