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Patch Notes 04/01/2020

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wonshot
Posts: 617

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#151 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:41 pm

mubbl wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:52 pm

what about the way more potent flat heal and dmg on order? what about the way better handle able 2h tank utility slots in order warbands?
yee mara can hit 24 peps now, so can every dps, but there is a way around it its pretty easy to be honest and obvious (;
SnB ib has a place in wbs...but order wbs are super racist cause only humans are allowed :P
I dont think anyone who has just a tiny idea about realm balance atm. will not admit that Order surely have their own strong advantages

Order has advantage in raw numbers, both damage and healing
Destro has advantage in morales and displacement & crowdcontrole
Utility is somewhat even and in a good place

So instead of having a situation like pre Shatter, where Order had the BW-ball meta and would have the fast wincondition of M2 drop early in the fight, if Destro could hold their own by displacing the BW ball, drain the pain away and reach M3 they would have a later wincondition. And in the mytic way of balance that was playing two different styles in different approach and tempo.
All of that went out the window when Shatter was introduced and Destro could stall for they new M2 wincondition of Shatter/Greatfang M2 drop. Instead of waiting for Deffening Bellow on Blackorc. Simply by having Winds of Insanity, Mara Aoe Knockdown unmatched on Order, snare procks and faster Morale pump on chosens to apply Distracting Bellow to stall the raw ability damage from the Brightwizards.

Sure Order can still win fights and everything goes in RvR, but we cant change that fact that Destro have been dominating the lakes and pushed zones big time lately and some of it comes from the realmwide balance is very uneven and has been for a long while.

I play an overtuned, overstacked, class that is getting hardcountered and im upset. But only because the alternatives are lacking on Orderside. :roll:
Last edited by wonshot on Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bombling BW RR 90 [Line by Line]
1.100 Invader crests on one char. 3/3 Royal gearsets. 600.000+ oRvR kills
Sometimes streams guild warbands with shotcalling during EU evenings.
Alts: Gombling[invader] | Chopling[invader] | Magnetling[invader] | Orderling[onslaught]

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Jeliel80
Posts: 75

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#152 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:47 pm

mubbl wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:40 pm
overall nice patch, i like the fort roll back. to be honest i dont know, why it is so late...
also i would like to see the overall count of wbs in a fort down by 1 on each side. i hope it will produce less zerging and therefor more nice battles/action in forts.
and to be honest, all these "dieing" rvr zone blabla is just cause of lazy players, that always want to be carried. you compete for the highest lvl gear, maybe work for it? Sounds harsh after devs made the loot system in zones like the olimpyc games, participation is all that counts, not winning :D
https://imgflip.com/i/3l8uk2
@7th
Don't worry we're constantly working on composition, tactics, etc. and doing quite well for ourselves.
But you missed the whole point, it doesn't have anything to do with our guild.
http://www.seventhlegion.net/
Jeliell - RP 85
Jel - WP 83
Jelyel - DoK 82

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zgolec
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Posts: 562

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#153 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:10 pm

heybaws wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:52 pm
RvR balance was dragged in destro favor a long time ago with Shatter m2 implementted as offencive morale for sorcs. Since then desto was allowed to drop morales with black orks, sorcs and maras, and all order counter was bright wizard. Situation become even worse with 24 AoE cap which allowed maras to drain an entire warband instead of 8 tanks and 1 random dps. So what do we have now? 1 side can morale bomb with black orks, marauders and sorcs, while chosens keep enemy under defencive 50% dmg reduction m2 for whole fight, and other side can't even reach m1, and you nerfed the only option for this side to drain enemy morale.
At this point i want to ask all "big brains" that whined about focused mending tactic one thing: maybe only 1 side have grp 15% heal buff for a reason? Maybe initial balance team knew better how to balance things out than you?
And to add that morale imbalance all other sorts of utility destro have, like several aoe punts without any immunity for suffered targets, 2 group cooldown reductions that also easier to drop compared to only 1 order mirror, spammable aoe snares with disorient debuff on it, shatter limbs on a character with pounce.
The list is huge, and in current circumstances nerfs of any order warband utility simply because destro doesn't have the exact mirror seems extremly shortsighted, and dare i say, biased.
This...

Also... never thought i say it: i miss Torque. That guy despite his behaviour had 100 x more knowledge about balance and classes that devs these days.

protip: Remove order completely, let ppl farm 24/7 wins on rvr completely unopossed - this will get you to the same point as 1 nerf for order at the time but way faster!

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toffikx
Posts: 279

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#154 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:24 pm

zgolec wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:10 pm
protip: Remove order completely,
How to order Gunbad if faction removed :( ?

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Greenbeast
Posts: 278

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#155 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:11 pm

wonshot wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:41 pm
mubbl wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:52 pm

what about the way more potent flat heal and dmg on order? what about the way better handle able 2h tank utility slots in order warbands?
yee mara can hit 24 peps now, so can every dps, but there is a way around it its pretty easy to be honest and obvious (;
SnB ib has a place in wbs...but order wbs are super racist cause only humans are allowed :P
I dont think anyone who has just a tiny idea about realm balance atm. will not admit that Order surely have their own strong advantages

Order has advantage in raw numbers, both damage and healing
Destro has advantage in morales and displacement & crowdcontrole
Utility is somewhat even and in a good place

So instead of having a situation like pre Shatter, where Order had the BW-ball meta and would have the fast wincondition of M2 drop early in the fight, if Destro could hold their own by displacing the BW ball, drain the pain away and reach M3 they would have a later wincondition. And in the mytic way of balance that was playing two different styles in different approach and tempo.
All of that went out the window when Shatter was introduced and Destro could stall for they new M2 wincondition of Shatter/Greatfang M2 drop. Instead of waiting for Deffening Bellow on Blackorc. Simply by having Winds of Insanity, Mara Aoe Knockdown unmatched on Order, snare procks and faster Morale pump on chosens to apply Distracting Bellow to stall the raw ability damage from the Brightwizards.

Sure Order can still win fights and everything goes in RvR, but we cant change that fact that Destro have been dominating the lakes and pushed zones big time lately and some of it comes from the realmwide balance is very uneven and has been for a long while.

I play an overtuned, overstacked, class that is getting hardcountered and im upset. But only because the alternatives are lacking on Orderside. :roll:
I wish you could bring 3-4 white lions into your warband to finally drain us and I wish we have ID, Ramp on choppas as well, solar flare for forts and maybe IW ICD spam for sorc, because it was nerfed.
Do you remember a fight between PnP and VII in Reikland. When a random marauder just went in and knocked you down, giving your warband free CC timer. That's how a half of destro displacement works in a real rvr environment. Any idea how to displace a bright wizard with 20 second immunity? :D Ah right you need to triple pot after 9.000 instant morale drop! I've forgot.
As I said many times - Bombling please stop comparing the game now with the game before because there are so much changed - like squig, black orc right tree, sorc IW, Chosen CS etc that things are way different now to live. Why don't propose changes to WL, SW and WH that might create a new meta instead?


I agree with you tho that order must have more warband viable classes that reduces warband damage output but brings utility abilities. Like Mara, SH, We or Magus does. By the way you need 3 marauders to really drain your enemy and that reduces your damage output putting your win condition to 40-50 seconds. Re-watch your duel with FMJ.
and I think that WE and WH must get some love for orvr.

mubbl
Posts: 229

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#156 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:13 pm

Spoiler:
Jeliel80 wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:47 pm
mubbl wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:40 pm
overall nice patch, i like the fort roll back. to be honest i dont know, why it is so late...
also i would like to see the overall count of wbs in a fort down by 1 on each side. i hope it will produce less zerging and therefor more nice battles/action in forts.
and to be honest, all these "dieing" rvr zone blabla is just cause of lazy players, that always want to be carried. you compete for the highest lvl gear, maybe work for it? Sounds harsh after devs made the loot system in zones like the olimpyc games, participation is all that counts, not winning :D
https://imgflip.com/i/3l8uk2
@7th
Don't worry we're constantly working on composition, tactics, etc. and doing quite well for ourselves.
But you missed the whole point, it doesn't have anything to do with our guild.
i guess you didnt got it, except Grylls nothing was directly addressed to you.
good to know you are "quite well", since otherwise rvr will become totaly dull.

@wonshot: i know the grass is always greener on the other side (rampage @ 6 points, etc.).

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Gunlinger
Posts: 35

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#157 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:49 pm

Impressiv changes. All this balancing stuff is ment to favor 6vs6 sc.
It rips up oRvR and PvE aswell. But man does it push 6vs6 sc.

I am not blind nor deaf. I have the luck to know the right people.
I got to learn how the inner and outher circle of decisionmaking is working here.
I know what circle decides and what circle just has to play along.
I know who plays 6vs6 and on what Realm.
Go on destroying everything when it comes to over all ballance, just to favor your little
Groupduell game. Sure we are just guests here. But without guests your little Party will
soon be just you in your Ivory Tower with noone to battle against.

And just by the way. That Patch has messed up Grouphealranges. Not that anyone would have noticed but 5 to 10 feet less range IS a BIG DEAL.
And all you guys loading your anger against the deffs who play too, get to learn something!
Most of them have literally no chance what so ever to even adress issues to the once above them. They themself are almost unable to adress anything to the inner circle. So maybe stop focusing on them just because they are in your reachable distance.

YOU who makes the decicions on what to change. Let me ask YOU this. When you have everything changed so your 6vs6 Destro Group can have enough fun. Will it be worth to have twisted and cut down the old and unique ''around the corner'' ballanced system?
Setting ablaze a whole World of gamemechanic, just to forge this tiny little microcosmus
in it to your will. Will it still make you happy then, when there is noone left to play against?

Tanks doing dmg
healers doing pew pew laser dmg
sm on willpower healing more then healers
rangers going into meele to do dmg
assasins can no longer assasinate low amored targets

It feels like Chaos has breached out and twisted the whole thing so hard that nothing
will ever get into Order again. A little bit more mirroring in terms of ballancing and soon we will play this as another WoW clone.

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wonshot
Posts: 617

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#158 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:51 pm

Since people bring up rampage, lets dive into that. Yes it is overtuned. And yes GTDC is really not on the same level.

But that is a perfect example of how unmirrored class balance works. Because Rampage will exhaust your rage and stop your current burst while letting you setup your later burst and giving you undefendable attacks.
Whereas GTDC against common misconceptions both attacks and pull-effect is undefendable (tested it internally in guild vs 100%parry buff) but it will let you sit in yellow/red rage ergo giving you more of an instant burst window with undefendable attacks. Making both of the two mdps classes have different rampup time on their undefendable burst.

Sure one is better than the other, but this is how unmirrored ballance looks like. Now do i think Rampage should be halfed in duration, sure.

@Grun hey bud. yeah we agree on some aspect and disagree on others. But having random CC freemunities applied is when a pugtail is involved, im always talking from a perspective of 24v24 balance not random roaming with uneven numbers :)
"Why don't propose changes to WL, SW and WH that might create a new meta instead?"
Well I had a brand new comp ready for new years with 2 WH in party4. but that has been scrapped now, why this exact timing of the patch stung extra much lol. Also the devs have several times said that some classes are just not meant to be warband viable, so its down to 3dps classes for order warbands as it seems.
Last edited by wonshot on Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bombling BW RR 90 [Line by Line]
1.100 Invader crests on one char. 3/3 Royal gearsets. 600.000+ oRvR kills
Sometimes streams guild warbands with shotcalling during EU evenings.
Alts: Gombling[invader] | Chopling[invader] | Magnetling[invader] | Orderling[onslaught]

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zgolec
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Posts: 562

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#159 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:58 pm

Gunlinger wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:49 pm
It feels like Chaos has breached out and twisted the whole thing so hard that nothing
will ever get into Order again. A little bit more mirroring in terms of ballancing and soon we will play this as another WoW clone.
Problem here as well is that mirroring only work for one side ;]

Havent seen much mirroring from destro to order :D
Mara morale drain and utilities on WL? pls even at cost of st dmg ;p [even tho you nerfed even st now w/o giving anything in return]
No interruptable, no immunity pinball punt fom Zel to rp? Yes pls!
Dmg from Cho to Kotbs? Yarrr...

With all the crap happening i wonder when they nerf rampage, wl dmg or bw dmg. Anything can happen now.

Sulorie
Posts: 4865

Re: Patch Notes 04/01/2020

Post#160 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:17 pm

Ototo wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:01 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:40 am
Where there healer changes too I didn't notice? Had little healers yesterday on destro side and often 7/12 tanks in sc. In short, random matchmaking is random and little numbers of a certain archetype have no balance reasons. People just want to progress with a certain class and don't care about over scenario setups, I mean "the other people will log tank, I don't have to".
((Sarcasm mode On)) Thanks for interpreting my memomry, now I feel way better knowing what I have to remember and what I have to think. Thanks for offering me your awesome unrequested insight. Thanks for offering me an explanation close to the faith, I will believe in other maluses from now on ((Sarcasm mode Off))

Seriously now, don't quote me again to give me your opinion ABOUT MY OPINION or to tell me what I have to remember, cause I don't want it.
You missed the intention of my post by a mile. Next time be less sensitive, take a breath and don't assume, that everyone wants to hurt your feelings.

When class imbalance happens in sc, it doesn't have to do with a certain patch and changes to some classes. This was my response to your assumption, that less tanks play on order side because of this recent patch.
Dying is no option.

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