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Patch Notes 10/06/2020 - Happy Birthday

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Omegus
Posts: 357

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#191 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:08 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm
I don't see this Order raw heal/damage vs Destro morale superiority argument as one that we can reasonably balance or even identify on a detailed level effectively. Seems more like a very wide blanket argument that does little to provide actual avenues for possible change.
I'll avoid the damage one as there aren't many obvious "fix this one thing" areas outside of Slayer's Rampage, but the healing one is far more obvious.

The first of two advantages is the WP healing advantage via Exalted Defenses. It's trivial to proc (defend against an attack) and provides an exta 20% healing. WPs are constantly top of the heal charts and this tactic is one of the big reasons why they are often overstacked by order. The class already provides incredible healing numbers without the tactic (see the DOK) and this just pushes it to silly levels.

The second advantage is the Knight's Now's Our Chance which adds in an extra 15% healing. Both NOC and ED are tactics so they stack together and give rise to the much talked about "35% order healing advantage" (might be slightly higher depending on how/where they are combined).

This is partially countered by the Chosen's -25% heal aura but as this is an ability it won't stack with heal debuff abilities, so when you go to heal debuff someone you're just replacing a -25% with a standard -50% which still gives order an overall advantage in healing.

If I were a dev I'd be targeting the healing difference between the two sides, especially in light of the morale changes. The only counter I know of to the superior healing was applying so much damage in one hit that it couldn't be healed through (i.e. morale drops) and even that had its counters if the drop was telegraphed (mainly punting and Rampaging Siphon) Now that's almost impossible I don't know what the counter-balance is for this healing advantage.

Regarding damage I'm sure people might bring up BW vs Sorc. Sorc seems to be doing better in cities than BW at the moment but BW seems to do better in ORVR. I don't know enough about the specific damage differences to comment on this one.


edit: as for the SW changes, my only comment is a general request to stop making things undefendable as it takes away all counter play. Undefendable spammable ranged heal debuff? Undefendable Festering Arrow? Really? :(
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wonshot
Posts: 599

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#192 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:28 pm

Omegus wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:08 pm

If I were a dev I'd be targeting the healing difference between the two sides, especially in light of the morale changes. The only counter I know of to the superior healing was applying so much damage in one hit that it couldn't be healed through (i.e. morale drops) and even that had its counters if the drop was telegraphed (mainly punting and Rampaging Siphon) Now that's almost impossible I don't know what the counter-balance is for this healing advantage.
It is a little bit funny how healers are doing just fine in keeping up, after the aoe cap was increased to 24 from 9 and the healer-community were freaking out about "omg how will we keep up"
Just a side note, WP scoreboard healing is usually a little manipulated with high end WPs spamming the woundsbuff to get higher numbers/contribution to get champ or for ego reasons. They do catch most of the fluff and aoe presure with their faster casted groupheals and group hots though, so they are up there above the amplifying runies and lifetap AMs
Bombling BW RR 89 [Line by Line]
1.100 Invader crests on one char. 3/3 Royal gearsets. 600.000+ oRvR kills
Alts: Gombling[invader] | Chopling[invader] | Magnetling[invader] | Orderling[onslaught]

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Jeliel80
Posts: 75

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#193 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:34 pm

Did you play WP by any chance.

I'm telling you that unless you're behind hold the line, triggering ED isn't trivial at all (unless we're talking about open field), actually is so rare in organized cities that it is barely worth the tactic slot, if not for the fact that you don't have anything better anyway (and destro mostly brings mdps and you ain't gonna dodge nothing).

The high numbers on WP are them spamming wounds buff, most of the time, I've seen plenty of cities with DoK doing similar or more healing than wp, which in itself doesn't mean much, cause it depends on damage taken as well (obviously for both sides).

That means that ED is useless? Ofc not but saying that WP does always extra 20% more healing is incredibly inaccurate.

As you already said Focused Mending is a flat 15% extra heal and obviously mandatory, but completely countered from -25% hd from chosen aura as kotbs outgoing aura is trash.

So I'd say the things balance out in healing department, but if you wanna give DoK ED equivalent I'm not gonna stop you, thanks. :D
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Jeliell - RP 85
Jel - WP 83
Jelyel - DoK 7x

jvlosky
Posts: 147

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#194 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:47 pm

Destro loses one city in the middle of off hours when nobody is online and blames it on SW even tho many ppl had no SWs even in their wb for city. Where as they have been winning for the past months till forever.

Destro complain hard.

Another city happens.

Destro win city.

Destro complain even harder.

Another city happens.

Destro win this city too.

Destro complain even harderer.

Wack.

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Bozzax
Posts: 2088

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#195 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:11 pm

Omegus wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:08 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm
I don't see this Order raw heal/damage vs Destro morale superiority argument as one that we can reasonably balance or even identify on a detailed level effectively. Seems more like a very wide blanket argument that does little to provide actual avenues for possible change.
Spoiler:
I'll avoid the damage one as there aren't many obvious "fix this one thing" areas outside of Slayer's Rampage, but the healing one is far more obvious.

The first of two advantages is the WP healing advantage via Exalted Defenses. It's trivial to proc (defend against an attack) and provides an exta 20% healing. WPs are constantly top of the heal charts and this tactic is one of the big reasons why they are often overstacked by order. The class already provides incredible healing numbers without the tactic (see the DOK) and this just pushes it to silly levels.

The second advantage is the Knight's Now's Our Chance which adds in an extra 15% healing. Both NOC and ED are tactics so they stack together and give rise to the much talked about "35% order healing advantage" (might be slightly higher depending on how/where they are combined).

This is partially countered by the Chosen's -25% heal aura but as this is an ability it won't stack with heal debuff abilities, so when you go to heal debuff someone you're just replacing a -25% with a standard -50% which still gives order an overall advantage in healing.
If I were a dev I'd be targeting the healing difference between the two sides, especially in light of the morale changes. The only counter I know of to the superior healing was applying so much damage in one hit that it couldn't be healed through (i.e. morale drops) and even that had its counters if the drop was telegraphed (mainly punting and Rampaging Siphon) Now that's almost impossible I don't know what the counter-balance is for this healing advantage.
Spoiler:
Regarding damage I'm sure people might bring up BW vs Sorc. Sorc seems to be doing better in cities than BW at the moment but BW seems to do better in ORVR. I don't know enough about the specific damage differences to comment on this one.


edit: as for the SW changes, my only comment is a general request to stop making things undefendable as it takes away all counter play. Undefendable spammable ranged heal debuff? Undefendable Festering Arrow? Really? :(
Lets break it down ...

Higher heal crits
+10% (outgoing) heal crits from Ironbreaker Ancestors Fury ( a tad clunky and provided you slot a capable IB over a SM )
+ 5% (outgoing) heal crits from Knight of the Blazing Sun
-------------------------------------
+7,5% heals (on average)

Also
- More procs on Warrior Priest absorb Divine Warding (secondary effect less incoming crits)
- Better uptime on Runepriest Blessing of GRungni

Stronger heals in AOE clash
+20% outgoing heals from Warrior Priests Exalted Defences
+15% incoming heals from Knight of the Blazing Sun Focused mending
-------------------------------------
+38% more heals (when it matters)

Warrior Priest 1.38 (ED + FM) x 1.075 (DT + AF)
+48% (When stars align)

Quicker casts for Runepriest group heals
+11% heals per second from Runepriest Master Rune of Speed for the Runie
------------------------------------

Runepriest 1.15 (FM) x 1.11 (MRoS) x 1.025 (DT)
+31%
Last edited by Bozzax on Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 10 times in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

jvlosky
Posts: 147

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#196 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:18 pm

Omegus wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:08 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm
I don't see this Order raw heal/damage vs Destro morale superiority argument as one that we can reasonably balance or even identify on a detailed level effectively. Seems more like a very wide blanket argument that does little to provide actual avenues for possible change.
I'll avoid the damage one as there aren't many obvious "fix this one thing" areas outside of Slayer's Rampage, but the healing one is far more obvious.

The first of two advantages is the WP healing advantage via Exalted Defenses. It's trivial to proc (defend against an attack) and provides an exta 20% healing. WPs are constantly top of the heal charts and this tactic is one of the big reasons why they are often overstacked by order. The class already provides incredible healing numbers without the tactic (see the DOK) and this just pushes it to silly levels.

The second advantage is the Knight's Now's Our Chance which adds in an extra 15% healing. Both NOC and ED are tactics so they stack together and give rise to the much talked about "35% order healing advantage" (might be slightly higher depending on how/where they are combined).

This is partially countered by the Chosen's -25% heal aura but as this is an ability it won't stack with heal debuff abilities, so when you go to heal debuff someone you're just replacing a -25% with a standard -50% which still gives order an overall advantage in healing.

If I were a dev I'd be targeting the healing difference between the two sides, especially in light of the morale changes. The only counter I know of to the superior healing was applying so much damage in one hit that it couldn't be healed through (i.e. morale drops) and even that had its counters if the drop was telegraphed (mainly punting and Rampaging Siphon) Now that's almost impossible I don't know what the counter-balance is for this healing advantage.

Regarding damage I'm sure people might bring up BW vs Sorc. Sorc seems to be doing better in cities than BW at the moment but BW seems to do better in ORVR. I don't know enough about the specific damage differences to comment on this one.


edit: as for the SW changes, my only comment is a general request to stop making things undefendable as it takes away all counter play. Undefendable spammable ranged heal debuff? Undefendable Festering Arrow? Really? :(


What class brings 50% aoe heal cut for infinite targets within 30ft with infinite duration? You can't dispel and aura btw. That is always on. Pretty freaking useful imo considering a good Chosen should be in the front like with their melee anyway right?

Haskr
Posts: 392

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#197 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:21 pm

i dont like the quest, was really buggy in the first days

the rewards are not good, title in first is useless, emblem second is ok, the cloak is not pretty and really hard to get, need 2 times renown event too.

the new sc is really boring desine wise, all closed space and such, i dont play it anymore, also dont know what to do, too many flags and stages.

maybe better event in the future!

changes to sw seem good, hope people have fun on that class now :D :D
knacks rr76 dps am hey thats me! :=)
*if you bring the stream, i bring the sniper* :shock: :o


the laughing elf!! /laugh

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Hugatsaga
Posts: 63

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#198 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:41 pm

Atropik wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:18 pm
Updated - Broadhead Arrows - Now stacks up to 3 times and base range increased to 100'
5/7 ticks of +/- 750 non-crit dmg each is a little bit too much, from my perspective.
Yea agree, my sorc got hit by 1901 by single BHA tick from conq geared SW. SW might have had Vengeance and I was armor debuffed. No other dmg modifiers iirc. I know sorcs are squishy but imo thats still bit too much from ability that has 0 cooldown and ticks once every 3 secs if my memory serves me right.

Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/N3cTcEG
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Adelmar
Posts: 79

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#199 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:22 pm

Hugatsaga wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:41 pm
Atropik wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:18 pm
Updated - Broadhead Arrows - Now stacks up to 3 times and base range increased to 100'
5/7 ticks of +/- 750 non-crit dmg each is a little bit too much, from my perspective.
Yea agree, my sorc got hit by 1901 by single BHA tick from conq geared SW. SW might have had Vengeance and I was armor debuffed. No other dmg modifiers iirc. I know sorcs are squishy but imo thats still bit too much from ability that has 0 cooldown and ticks once every 3 secs if my memory serves me right.

Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/N3cTcEG
I agree that a 1901 crit tick from BHA is too much, but (apart from 1v1's or 1vX's that have 0 cleanses) this stacking mechanic is the wrong way of buffing a spec that needed only a bit of help. It takes roughly 7 secs to get the first tick of a 3-stacked BHA, which in most cases, is plenty of time to have it cleansed. If they would have just increased the BHA delve or the ratio a bit, that would have sufficed.

At this point, I'd actually be happy with a complete removal of the SW changes, as I feel the majority of them aren't really buffs. If the devs had created a feedback/suggestion thread and took advice only from the more level-headed and balance-minded SWs, heavily moderate it to stop any of the derailments and crying that would inevitably happen, bump the thread periodically to not allow it to fall too far back in the thread list and implement said changes in a less drastic or sudden way to give time for testing, we'd have, I think, a better class in the end.

Imo, the SW didn't really NEED an entire rework to be more viable, just some tweaks to a handful of abilities and possibly the return of UF (a boy can dream). I realize they're getting good feedback from some SW mains already, so I hope they take their thoughts into account.
Hired (WH) - RR8X
Audari (WE) - RR7X
Contract (SW) - RR8X

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Pandastyle
Posts: 48

Re: Patch Notes 06/10/2020 - Happy Birthday

Post#200 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:09 pm

I agree that SWs needed a buff...but I was wondering is THIS: https://imgur.com/a/7yqG1SR the new norm now? I was on my marauder in 3vanq/3inv gear (for those who dont remember: medium armor, so the second highest armor rating). I dont want to imagine what squishy targets have to go through now...not crying for nerf as I said they deserved some love...I just wished I could crit 2.1k on a 5sec cd with no real requirements...my highest crits are maybe 1.7k on squishys
(btw there was another 1.8k crit which I didnt get on screen on time...)

Also I hope its okay that I didnt censor the name, because I dont see it as name shaming

//edit: actually..how could he/she spam brutal assault twice in 1sec? cd reduce? but gcd is 1.5sec...lag?
Last edited by Pandastyle on Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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