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Patch Notes 15/07/2020

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Brickson
Posts: 46

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#121 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:32 pm

Spoiler:
Sulorie wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:10 am
saupreusse wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:43 am
Sulorie wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:33 am


But you can do so, there are cities with 12+ players per side, that's no warband size fight.
I didnt know you could queue for 12v12 only.

Also he obviously didnt mention 12v12 cities and actually excluded cities in his post which makes your post a strawman argument.
How you think so?
He mentioned small scale and 12vs12 is rather small. You can't aim for it but more often than not, when queuing as 6man or less you get into small sized instances.
He talked about cities and mentioned, that getting the gear somewhere else, where his class might be stronger, would be better. I responded, that you can find those small size fights in city siege as well.
Just imagine how many of those "problematic" classes queue solo? Ofc you are easily killed, if having no dedicated healers and tanks. It's a matter of setup and heal-tank-dd balance first and foremost.
There is zero reason for a non-meta class to struggle to get endgame gear.
I was thinking about small scale orvr, but you're right. 12vs12 cities could be considered a way of small scale too.
I usually solo queue with my wh and often get 12vs12 cities (although most of the time it's +-2 on either side, which already tips the balance of the instance). The instances were a hot mess most of the time, because they were a gathering of all the misfits that didn't fit the meta groups. The team composition was usually all over the place. Sometimes you're lucky and a tank or two take a wrong turn and end up in your instance as well :D
If you look at the order chat while you can queue it's either a wb looking for tanks (and sometimes healers) or rr80+ dps (even SL/WL) with sov gear looking for groups. Good luck finding tanks and healers for a 2-2-2 12 man that would like to take your non meta, non sov gear, sub rr80 dps char over some rr80+ meta char. It's possible, just like balanced and fun 12vs12 solo queue cities are possible. But it's extremely rare and nothing you can rely on. Which in the end makes progress for those classes far slower and more painfull than for the meta classes.

Aside from class balance problems: Allowing to get your gear in more aspects of the game would also help with the problem that a lot of a EU players rarely even see cities, because they can only play at EU prime time :)
Bricksona 7X WH, Bricksone 6X Engi, Bricksorno 4X RP, Bricksana 2X/3X SM

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Brickson
Posts: 46

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#122 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:47 pm

Spoiler:
wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:27 pm
Sundowner wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:05 am
wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:49 am
its funny that sc premade vs pug is fine, and its yours fault that U dont make a premade. But pug wb vs premade wb in city omg its not fair order op or destro op and its biggest problem in game.
1. scenarios last maximum of 15 mins, cities last much more
2. scenarios do not give coins for endgame gear
3. part of scenarions can be won with weaker classes (controlling of obectives sometimes do not require to be better in fights, in cities, for most part, you need to be stronger/have better tactics and communication to win.
1. So how long 25 m omg its eternity 🤣
2. U dont win all sc so why U want win all city sc ?
3. So ask yourself U play this game for fun or its a hard grinding work, that U need work with young but well organized group ? 🤔
1. Stage 1 is at least 20 minutes (up to 45), stage 2 up to 30 minutes and the whole city is capped at 2 hours.
2. He never said that. Your 'argument' makes no sense.
3. So ask yourself: Can you form an english sentence that people can actually understand?
Bricksona 7X WH, Bricksone 6X Engi, Bricksorno 4X RP, Bricksana 2X/3X SM

Sundowner
Posts: 42

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#123 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:48 pm

wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:27 pm
1. So how long 25 m omg its eternity 🤣
2. U dont win all sc so why U want win all city sc ?
3. So ask yourself U play this game for fun or its a hard grinding work, that U need work with young but well organized group ? 🤔
1. Stupid argument. 95% of cities last more than 40 mins. 25 min city could only occur when defenders stomp attackers.
2. I can play a lot of scs per day almost at any time+rewards are not than benefitial for endgame. Cities are 1-2 times per day at irregular times, it is easy to miss them+gear from cities is BIS for 99% of classes.
3. What I play this game for is irrelevant to this argument.

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wachlarz
Posts: 435

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#124 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:33 pm

Sundowner wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:48 pm
wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:27 pm
1. So how long 25 m omg its eternity 🤣
2. U dont win all sc so why U want win all city sc ?
3. So ask yourself U play this game for fun or its a hard grinding work, that U need work with young but well organized group ? 🤔
1. Stupid argument. 95% of cities last more than 40 mins. 25 min city could only occur when defenders stomp attackers.
2. I can play a lot of scs per day almost at any time+rewards are not than benefitial for endgame. Cities are 1-2 times per day at irregular times, it is easy to miss them+gear from cities is BIS for 99% of classes.
3. What I play this game for is irrelevant to this argument.
its there any reward for being first in BIS gear ? I play this game for Fun. if U play for gear, work faster leazy peon 😁

Zxul
Posts: 827

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#125 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:15 pm

What all who posted here had overlooked, is that when comparing to live the problem isn't actually with the classes themselves.

Back on live I had in t4 dps dok/tank magus/dps zealot/dps bg/we, all of those solo specs which wouldn't get place in wbs. And actually I almost never joined wbs (was expert at finding empty cities, if I remember right one of cities I managed to farm 3 instances :P).

And I still did very fine, considering live was lot more solo oriented. You got currency from kills/ endgame armor from Tranquil's instance which required fighting but was pug/small scale, and keep mechanics didn't really required wbs, even in populated zones, for most stages.

The difference in RoR is that while lot of classes are still solo/very small scale oriented- all the non wb meta ones- but small scale is pretty much nonexistent, especially with endgame armor being wb vs wb. As such those classes don't have the environment which they are intended for, with expected results.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Manatikik
Posts: 1129

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#126 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Omegus wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:58 am
M0rw47h wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:30 am
The best possible buff to rSW would be to get rid of it completly.
Making it more like Mara, st pressure, st burst and AoE spec would make it way more viable. With some utility bow attacks here and there.
Pretty sure the #1 reason people roll a SW is because they want to be an archer...
Look at these noobs not expecting a 90 minute city, minimum. Ha ha, ha....

The biggest issue is at one point SW was fine. ASW was good for small scale, there was a roaming ST spec with Skirm/Scout, and then there was the bombing with LA + ES + UF. Then everything changed August 2017, a month that will live in SW infamy.
<Montague><Capulet>

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Spellbound
Posts: 44

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#127 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:25 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 pm
Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
Order is back to losing City sieges by decent margin post morale nerf.
50% of the order population are either sniper engies who only sit on walls or solo dps am/white lions.

Are you really surprised that these players lose when they try to pug cities?
Why do you think they play less tanks? Less healers means you know you won’t get heals if playing melee. So they jump to range. AMs are bad healers versus RP and WP because they’re more utility and DPS focus. If healing was strong all around and many play it, the meta can change to the tanks.

Give IBs a AOE knockdown like marauders and take one ability away.
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Alfa1986
Posts: 431

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#128 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:49 pm

Zxul wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:15 pm
What all who posted here had overlooked, is that when comparing to live the problem isn't actually with the classes themselves.

Back on live I had in t4 dps dok/tank magus/dps zealot/dps bg/we, all of those solo specs which wouldn't get place in wbs. And actually I almost never joined wbs (was expert at finding empty cities, if I remember right one of cities I managed to farm 3 instances :P).

And I still did very fine, considering live was lot more solo oriented. You got currency from kills/ endgame armor from Tranquil's instance which required fighting but was pug/small scale, and keep mechanics didn't really required wbs, even in populated zones, for most stages.

The difference in RoR is that while lot of classes are still solo/very small scale oriented- all the non wb meta ones- but small scale is pretty much nonexistent, especially with endgame armor being wb vs wb. As such those classes don't have the environment which they are intended for, with expected results.
I would say on live you were not forced to progress as straightforward and rough as here. on ror, your progression is rails, and you are a locomotive). if you want to get high-end content, you must perform for a long time those actions that you may not really like (get up at three in the morning when the city happened; go through the three hells of gunbad and city dungeons to be able to wear on things from the bastion stairs, etc.).
On live, you were not forced to perform all these meaningless actions, and the biggest problem was not to get the thing, but to get renown level in order to be able to wear this thing. I remember that I pumped the first character for half a year to get level 80 by playing almost every day for 4-6 hours.
you were given many ways to get the best equipment, and you could choose whichever method was most convenient for you. there was the ward system that balanced pve and rvr sets. the currency for rvr sets u could get from killing characters, respectively, if you didn't like the forts, you could not go in them, if you didn't like the cities, you could not go in them, if you got into a losing mirror with a pre-made warband, you could try to leave and go to another mirror (there was no binding to a specific mirror).

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Akilinus
Posts: 308

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#129 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:01 pm

Spellbound wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:25 pm
Akilinus wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 pm
Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
Order is back to losing City sieges by decent margin post morale nerf.
50% of the order population are either sniper engies who only sit on walls or solo dps am/white lions.

Are you really surprised that these players lose when they try to pug cities?
Why do you think they play less tanks? Less healers means you know you won’t get heals if playing melee. So they jump to range. AMs are bad healers versus RP and WP because they’re more utility and DPS focus. If healing was strong all around and many play it, the meta can change to the tanks.

Give IBs a AOE knockdown like marauders and take one ability away.
They want to play solo and will play the classes that are strong at soloing.

its a bit ridiculous that you complain about the balance and claim that you worked with balance on live. Maybe you and the team should have built a better foundation from the start.....
Kkomrade 80 Zealot Akilinuz 75 Chosen
Kkomrades 80 Black Guard Bomble 60 Sorc

navis
Posts: 704

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#130 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:56 pm

Spellbound wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:11 am
I know programming and adjustments are slow on this server...
Wrong.
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