Patch Notes 15/07/2020

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catholicism198
Posts: 1012

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#101 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:57 am

Omegus wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:28 am
saupreusse wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:07 pm
Even if we keep the faction balance out of mind for a sec i guess we can agree that sw ranged specs have been hit with nerfs over the last 4 years like no other class.
When the starting point was a class who could instakill most classes while under m2 it was never going to have an easy time. Finding a niche for the SW when you look at the huge amount of roles and playstyles covered by BW and Engi is very difficult.

Mobile st? Bring a BW. Static st? Engi.
Engineer is garbage in cities and sieges. The AE obliterates the turret (made suggestions to remedy this) and 40% of the Engineer's damage potential is gone in a blink.
They only work for keep defense.

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Foofmonger
Posts: 422

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#102 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:27 am

Omegus wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:28 am
saupreusse wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:07 pm
Even if we keep the faction balance out of mind for a sec i guess we can agree that sw ranged specs have been hit with nerfs over the last 4 years like no other class.
When the starting point was a class who could instakill most classes while under m2 it was never going to have an easy time. Finding a niche for the SW when you look at the huge amount of roles and playstyles covered by BW and Engi is very difficult.

Mobile st? Bring a BW. Static st? Engi.
I don't feel like its that hard though, the class was always designed to have a niche, but it never fufilled that niche. SW/SH should be high damage/high range/stationary ST (however on this server they gave the range to the engie/magus which I believe was a mistake), a melee spec of some sort (obviously the initial ideas from Mythic were terrible, and the RoR designs are better), and a mobile AoE dps that can aoe from ranges greater than a bw (but with less damage), but be more mobile than an aoe engie.

That's what the class was designed to be, and what those archetypes "should" be, according to the point of the 3 different mastery paths. It's just they were executed upon poorly at initial design and nobody has ever sat down and looked at the archetype system of this game and decided "hey this doesn't really work well".

The same goes for Magus/Engie and BW/Sorc, and again why balancing all of a classes mastery paths and specs are important (something Mythic failed to grasp), as each has an intended design/particular role that it's supposed to fulfill, and currently, many of the RDPS archetypes are fundamentally broken still, to this day, besides BWs and Sorcs. Look at magus/engie, both Mythic and RoR decided to pump many of the buffs to this archetype into the pet system, raised the aoe cap to 24, and then didn't give the pets aoe damage reduction. What is this?

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detrap
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Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#103 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:31 am

Elenori wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:50 am
I don't usually write a lot on the forums, but have to start some time...

If the reasoning behind the recent changes to shadow warriors was to improve the class, then it wasn't a very good job (especially with the later changes limiting everything even further). If you judge by the city sieges that seem to be the base of measurement, shadow warriors were in demand for what, one day? :P

I can agree that the melee ability having three hits was a little too powerful, but I don't think making it even worse than before is the way to go. Perhaps you could return it to the original (two hits and spirit) and put the vengeance part into something else?

This is really sad.

I'm starting to realise a lot of the feedback I read from SW players in game is nothing more than comparisons over 1 class vs another. They are still powerful when paired with a WW spec'd SM, but not once have I ever seen any SW request to be paired with one.
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Honshu
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Posts: 26

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#104 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:59 am

detrap wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:31 am
Starting to realise a lot of the feedback I read from SW players in game is nothing more than comparisons over 1 class vs another.
Why do you act as if that's an invalid basis of comparison? As a DPS class, it is in direct competition with other DPS classes for spots in parties. You have to consider the opportunity costs associated with taking any given class into your team, or in other words, what am I GIVING UP by playing a Shadow Warrior over another class, or taking it into my party over another DPS?

The simple and honest answer is you're giving up way too much compared to going for a "meta" DPS class such as BW, WL, or SL. Those classes all offer far greater rewards for choosing them over a SW.

Pretending that this isn't so, or that you should ignore the fact that every class has to offer a unique value in order to justify itself, is not helping anyone, least of all the poor SWs.

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detrap
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Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#105 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:55 am

Honshu wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:59 am
detrap wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:31 am
Starting to realise a lot of the feedback I read from SW players in game is nothing more than comparisons over 1 class vs another.
Why do you act as if that's an invalid basis of comparison? As a DPS class, it is in direct competition with other DPS classes for spots in parties. You have to consider the opportunity costs associated with taking any given class into your team, or in other words, what am I GIVING UP by playing a Shadow Warrior over another class, or taking it into my party over another DPS?

The simple and honest answer is you're giving up way too much compared to going for a "meta" DPS class such as BW, WL, or SL. Those classes all offer far greater rewards for choosing them over a SW.

Pretending that this isn't so, or that you should ignore the fact that every class has to offer a unique value in order to justify itself, is not helping anyone, least of all the poor SWs.
The reason for this, is that the general playerbase do not utilise certain abilities from one class with another, in this case SW + SM's, tbh the same can be applied for the lack of WL + SM combinations. You can't cry foul play when you don't even try. Buffing a class that is already strong in certain group synergies is not fair imo. Just because it aint the general "meta" doesn't mean it's screaming for a buff.

Play with a WW SM, enjoy the 0 cooldowns on some of your abilities, and see if SW still have trouble bringing something to the table. Funny how I see BW are starting to ask for SM's in their group I haven't seen any of the High Elf class players ask.
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agemennon675
Posts: 135

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#106 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:34 am

detrap wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:55 am
Honshu wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:59 am
detrap wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:31 am
Starting to realise a lot of the feedback I read from SW players in game is nothing more than comparisons over 1 class vs another.
Why do you act as if that's an invalid basis of comparison? As a DPS class, it is in direct competition with other DPS classes for spots in parties. You have to consider the opportunity costs associated with taking any given class into your team, or in other words, what am I GIVING UP by playing a Shadow Warrior over another class, or taking it into my party over another DPS?

The simple and honest answer is you're giving up way too much compared to going for a "meta" DPS class such as BW, WL, or SL. Those classes all offer far greater rewards for choosing them over a SW.

Pretending that this isn't so, or that you should ignore the fact that every class has to offer a unique value in order to justify itself, is not helping anyone, least of all the poor SWs.
The reason for this, is that the general playerbase do not utilise certain abilities from one class with another, in this case SW + SM's, tbh the same can be applied for the lack of WL + SM combinations. You can't cry foul play when you don't even try. Buffing a class that is already strong in certain group synergies is not fair imo. Just because it aint the general "meta" doesn't mean it's screaming for a buff.

Play with a WW SM, enjoy the 0 cooldowns on some of your abilities, and see if SW still have trouble bringing something to the table. Funny how I see BW are starting to ask for SM's in their group I haven't seen any of the High Elf class players ask.
When you get 0 warband slot you cannot ask for a SM in your party, and dont worry everyone knows SW paired with WW SM does 1/3 of a dmg of a lion 1/10 dmg of a MSH in a city enviroment, oh SW can still outdmg tanks tho which is unacceptable for a dps class since their realm is crayz OP SW should be further nerfed to balance the realms

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detrap
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Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#107 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:11 am

agemennon675 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:34 am
detrap wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:55 am
Honshu wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:59 am


Why do you act as if that's an invalid basis of comparison? As a DPS class, it is in direct competition with other DPS classes for spots in parties. You have to consider the opportunity costs associated with taking any given class into your team, or in other words, what am I GIVING UP by playing a Shadow Warrior over another class, or taking it into my party over another DPS?

The simple and honest answer is you're giving up way too much compared to going for a "meta" DPS class such as BW, WL, or SL. Those classes all offer far greater rewards for choosing them over a SW.

Pretending that this isn't so, or that you should ignore the fact that every class has to offer a unique value in order to justify itself, is not helping anyone, least of all the poor SWs.
The reason for this, is that the general playerbase do not utilise certain abilities from one class with another, in this case SW + SM's, tbh the same can be applied for the lack of WL + SM combinations. You can't cry foul play when you don't even try. Buffing a class that is already strong in certain group synergies is not fair imo. Just because it aint the general "meta" doesn't mean it's screaming for a buff.

Play with a WW SM, enjoy the 0 cooldowns on some of your abilities, and see if SW still have trouble bringing something to the table. Funny how I see BW are starting to ask for SM's in their group I haven't seen any of the High Elf class players ask.
When you get 0 warband slot you cannot ask for a SM in your party, and dont worry everyone knows SW paired with WW SM does 1/3 of a dmg of a lion 1/10 dmg of a MSH in a city enviroment, oh SW can still outdmg tanks tho which is unacceptable for a dps class since their realm is crayz OP SW should be further nerfed to balance the realms
From what you have said, until you have tried, or you are lucky enough for the opportunity to play with one in a warband/party, then it's hard to make a real case then.
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Brickson
Posts: 45

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#108 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:45 am

I think class balance would be less of a problem if cities weren't such an important part of getting your end game gear. If soloing, smallscale, scenarios (normal and ranked), large scale rvr, forts and cities all would allow you to aquire all your gear in a comparable and reasonable time, you could just play the way you like and what fits the current state of your class best.
Sure, there still would be disparities between classes, because some will still be viable in more situations. But at least no one would be locked out of having a reasonable progress.
Bricksona 7X WH, Bricksone 6X Engi, Bricksorno 4X RP, Bricksana 2X/3X SM

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Omegus
Posts: 414

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#109 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:02 am

catholicism198 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:57 am
Omegus wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:28 am
saupreusse wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:07 pm
Even if we keep the faction balance out of mind for a sec i guess we can agree that sw ranged specs have been hit with nerfs over the last 4 years like no other class.
When the starting point was a class who could instakill most classes while under m2 it was never going to have an easy time. Finding a niche for the SW when you look at the huge amount of roles and playstyles covered by BW and Engi is very difficult.

Mobile st? Bring a BW. Static st? Engi.
Engineer is garbage in cities and sieges. The AE obliterates the turret (made suggestions to remedy this) and 40% of the Engineer's damage potential is gone in a blink.
They only work for keep defense.
I know this, and even that hot garbage gets more work done than a static ranged SW :P. Both are poor in cities.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot
Addons: CityFix v1.0

agemennon675
Posts: 135

Re: Patch Notes 15/07/2020

Post#110 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:08 am

Brickson wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:45 am
I think class balance would be less of a problem if cities weren't such an important part of getting your end game gear. If soloing, smallscale, scenarios (normal and ranked), large scale rvr, forts and cities all would allow you to aquire all your gear in a comparable and reasonable time, you could just play the way you like and what fits the current state of your class best.
Sure, there still would be disparities between classes, because some will still be viable in more situations. But at least no one would be locked out of having a reasonable progress.
I agree with you but this is never going to happen

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