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Patch Notes 22/07/2020

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satanicomoderno
Posts: 121

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#41 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:01 pm

- Players now only respawn in keeps if they are safe, no longer if outer door is already under attack.



In Kadrin Vale, where destro wc is at the side of the keep and Reikland, where destro wc gives easier access to south and north and easier access to the keep, Order will be now in disavantage.

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 609

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#42 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:27 pm

-Keeps now rank up when resources are handed in, as long as doors are at 98% health or above. Resources handed in when door is below 98% health will still heal the door.
Big boost to zergers. Actually killing a ram was one of the few shots in the arm the underdogs could get.

Zerging keeps will be super easy now. Pugs without healers are screwed by this. Guess they found a way to speed up the campaign.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/81) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Karl
Posts: 195

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#43 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:53 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:27 pm
-Keeps now rank up when resources are handed in, as long as doors are at 98% health or above. Resources handed in when door is below 98% health will still heal the door.
Big boost to zergers. Actually killing a ram was one of the few shots in the arm the underdogs could get.

Zerging keeps will be super easy now. Pugs without healers are screwed by this. Guess they found a way to speed up the campaign.
[/quote

Agree with this. It’s almosts as zergs didn’t take keeps fast enuff before patch...

Last patch adjusted the ”penalty” for zergin. Not sure were we are going...
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AxelF
Posts: 167

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#44 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:53 pm

Why does it seem impossible to make gentle balancing adjustments, changing course incrementally and then assessing the impact before making further corrections if needed?

Instead we get things slammed with a sledgehammer so they lurch way too far one way, and just end up getting slammed back in the other direction with an even bigger sledgehammer, resulting in an even worse situation than before any changes were made.

The keep situation was probably too far in favour of the defenders given the time it takes to down the outer and tag the inner, but this adjustment seems way over the top - it gives a massive advantage to the overpopulated side, and all it will do is kill keep defences.

Would it have hurt to have started at maybe when the outer reaches 75% or even 50% and assessed and tweaked from there? Now the under populated realm has to either pick a zone and all sit afk in the keep, leaving the side with bigger numbers to run free in the lakes, or just take another zone uncontested, or they just forget trying to defend, and as soon as the outer is tagged it's over.

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Kaelang
Bugtracker Manager
Posts: 903

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#45 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:58 pm

Zerging keeps will be super easy now. Pugs without healers are screwed by this. Guess they found a way to speed up the campaign.
Pugs without healers aren't a threat regardless of circumstance, it's just a bunch of solo players who don't know how to form compositions and are expecting to do something. If you're running 24 without a single healer, change or not, you're not doing anything but feeding.
Now the under populated realm has to either pick a zone and all sit afk in the keep, leaving the side with bigger numbers to run free in the lakes, or just take another zone uncontested, or they just forget trying to defend, and as soon as the outer is tagged it's over.
That's a player behaviour mentality, and not something devs should look to change. If you see this change as a 'welp better AFK', instead of 'let's discuss in region what's happening and sort out some flanks, let's be a nuisance and try to slow them down' - that's on you.

The changes made are obviously being monitored as they hit live - changes don't just drop onto the server and get forgotten about. But complaining about something within 2 hours, and 2 zone flips, is ridiculous. Let it settle and review it after it's been thoroughly played out. Stop trying to find things to be unhappy with before you've even played the changes.
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AxelF
Posts: 167

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#46 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:10 pm

Kaelang wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:58 pm
Zerging keeps will be super easy now. Pugs without healers are screwed by this. Guess they found a way to speed up the campaign.
Pugs without healers aren't a threat regardless of circumstance, it's just a bunch of solo players who don't know how to form compositions and are expecting to do something. If you're running 24 without a single healer, change or not, you're not doing anything but feeding.
Now the under populated realm has to either pick a zone and all sit afk in the keep, leaving the side with bigger numbers to run free in the lakes, or just take another zone uncontested, or they just forget trying to defend, and as soon as the outer is tagged it's over.
That's a player behaviour mentality, and not something devs should look to change. If you see this change as a 'welp better AFK', instead of 'let's discuss in region what's happening and sort out some flanks, let's be a nuisance and try to slow them down' - that's on you.

The changes made are obviously being monitored as they hit live - changes don't just drop onto the server and get forgotten about. But complaining about something within 2 hours, and 2 zone flips, is ridiculous. Let it settle and review it after it's been thoroughly played out. Stop trying to find things to be unhappy with before you've even played the changes.
It's not solely a player mentality issue though, it's a numbers imbalance issue and a game mechanics issue - once the difference in numbers reaches a certain point, or simply the mass of the funneling side's AoE reaches a certain point, it's impossible to break through one or two tiny choke points, regardless of how many healers you have, or if you're in 2/2/2 warbands. We've seen that time and time again. Absolving yourselves of responsibility for this is just a massive cop out.

Like I said - the intention is probably in the right direction, it's just the increasing absence of judgement or a gentle touch when it comes to mechanics adjustments or class balancing that's baffling. See class balance changes which lurch way too far one way and then get smacked back too far the other, rinse and repeat...

We just see changes being made that clearly haven't been thought through properly, and then the classic 'player mentality' or 'current meta' arguements get trotted out. You guys are the only ones with the power to chance the meta of the game, and the mentality of the players. Everyone else is just reacting to your decisions. Own them. (And hopefully make better ones...)

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 609

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#47 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:17 pm

Kaelang wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:58 pm
Zerging keeps will be super easy now. Pugs without healers are screwed by this. Guess they found a way to speed up the campaign.
Pugs without healers aren't a threat regardless of circumstance, it's just a bunch of solo players who don't know how to form compositions and are expecting to do something. If you're running 24 without a single healer, change or not, you're not doing anything but feeding.
^ I think all the dest who complain about Order RDPS are going to disagree about them not being a threat.

And random solo/pug wbs with 0-3 healers have always been key to getting enough ppl in region chat to attack a ram and kill it. If you think Order only defends keeps when they have 2/2/2 warbands then I dont know what game you’ve been playing.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/81) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 6762
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Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#48 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:37 pm

AxelF wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:10 pm

It's not solely a player mentality issue though, it's a numbers imbalance issue and a game mechanics issue - once the difference in numbers reaches a certain point, or simply the mass of the funneling side's AoE reaches a certain point, it's impossible to break through one or two tiny choke points, regardless of how many healers you have, or if you're in 2/2/2 warbands. We've seen that time and time again. Absolving yourselves of responsibility for this is just a massive cop out.

Like I said - the intention is probably in the right direction, it's just the increasing absence of judgement or a gentle touch when it comes to mechanics adjustments or class balancing that's baffling. See class balance changes which lurch way too far one way and then get smacked back too far the other, rinse and repeat...

We just see changes being made that clearly haven't been thought through properly, and then the classic 'player mentality' or 'current meta' arguements get trotted out. You guys are the only ones with the power to chance the meta of the game, and the mentality of the players. Everyone else is just reacting to your decisions. Own them. (And hopefully make better ones...)
There are already commits in place to address some of the missed issues. We've never claimed to be omniscient gods, we've shown continuously that we're able and willing to listen to feedback and implement it where it makes sense. It's an alpha server (another classic cop out right?), roll with it.
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Duukar
Posts: 87

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#49 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:51 pm

I think these are interesting changes.

Definitely going to be neat adjusting tactics to take advantage of rapid keep takes to split up the enemy defense.

Give it some time. Tweak as required. Fun!

In addition this is a passive buff to WH/WE albeit a very small one. Not much use with a few WHs in a keep alone.

reistahlen
Posts: 14

Re: Patch Notes 22/07/2020

Post#50 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:59 pm

Duukar wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:51 pm


In addition this is a passive buff to WH/WE albeit a very small one. Not much use with a few WHs in a keep alone.
My thinking is: less people in keep/more AFK because nobody's doing anything = easier to gank with WE/WH.

Could greatly improve stealth utility in campaign.

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