Return of Reckoning

Ekundu01 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:42 pm

Rydiak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:33 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:29 pm

The math is wrong from the OP illustrating the multiply vs adding. If you multiple 5% into 25% you get a 1.25% increase. Meaning you only get 26.25. So adding all % damage bonuses up first gets you more damage vs multiplying them together.

You get a 1.25 percentage point increase over 30%, which totals to 31.25%.

Here, this may help you: wolframalpha.com

No you don't if the coding is taking all damage bonuses and multiplying them together to calculate the damage bonus portion of the attack vs adding them you don't get 31.25%. When calculating the damage bonus portion the coding takes all the damage bonuses and adds them up so 5% + 25% added together = 30% damage bonus. If you change that to multiply 5%*25% = 26.25%. You don't get to add them together and multiply them into one another.

Oh lord, help me.

Here, give this a shot: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=arithmetic+lessons+near+me

Ekundu01 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:42 pm No you don't if the coding is taking all damage bonuses and multiplying them together to calculate the damage bonus portion of the attack vs adding them you don't get 31.25%. When calculating the damage bonus portion the coding takes all the damage bonuses and adds them up so 5% + 25% added together = 30% damage bonus. If you change that to multiply 5%*25% = 26.25%. You don't get to add them together and multiply them into one another.

Additive
5% + 25% = 30% increase
100 * 1.30 = 130

Multiplicative
100 * 1.05 * 1.25 = 1.3125
1.3125 = 31.25% increase

Multiplicative gets a greater increase with every further increase

Math ruins lives, families, and friendships. If you are having a math problem, seek professional help. Don't do math alone. It's not worth it. You're worth more than math.

Rydiak wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:29 pmThat is great if you want to say you modified your modified damage by an additional percentage amount, but not if you want to say you modified your unmodified damage by a percentage amount.

Which is exactly the point i was making since my first post - additive bonuses apply to base value and the outcome of further investment gets diminished, while multiplicative bonuses retain their value no matter how many you have.

In a game where %dmg bonuses have very limited and specific availability (as opposed to regular stats) it is better to have them as multiplicative so their value don't change.

For example as we have it right now, a class like Bright Wizard or WL would benefit from Engie's Coordinated Fire more than Slayer, because Slayer already has high % bonus, while BW/WL get their damage output from other sources(Crit power, Pet, etc) that are naturally multiplicative with % increase.
In case % bonuses were multiplicative the effect would be the same for everyone.
Same applies to things like Flanking tactic, Bloodlord bonud, Vanquisher bonus and so on.

JayLeonHart wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:47 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:42 pm No you don't if the coding is taking all damage bonuses and multiplying them together to calculate the damage bonus portion of the attack vs adding them you don't get 31.25%. When calculating the damage bonus portion the coding takes all the damage bonuses and adds them up so 5% + 25% added together = 30% damage bonus. If you change that to multiply 5%*25% = 26.25%. You don't get to add them together and multiply them into one another.

Additive
5% + 25% = 30% increase
100 * 1.30 = 130

Multiplicative
100 * 1.05 * 1.25 = 1.3125
1.3125 = 31.25% increase

Multiplicative gets a greater increase with every further increase

I think this is where the confusion is coming in. I was thinking along the lines of the actual code and when it takes the Damage multiplier portion in effect, if it was changed to multiply the values together before applying it to the damage. I am pretty sure the coding takes all the damage multipliers and adds them up together before applying them to the damage value. If that was changed to multiply the numbers together before applying them to the damage value it would be a loss of increase and not a gain.

(Damage value*(5%+25%)) vs (Damage value*(.05*.25))

Rumpel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:53 am How do Spells like Witch Brew scale with the Toughnes changes?

And does the Deffspec on my Withch Elf make sense anymore ? Cause I love it but sounds like with 400<str I have a huge dmg loss now....but im more tanky now with nearly 800 toughnes?

Looking at total changes over the two patches.

You (high toughness, low str, WB+kisses) vs different setups:

You vs low str- you gained defense, since toughness mitigates more cause of no cap.
You vs high str- mostly no difference, except your absorbs are somewhat less effective (dmg is mitigated by armor/resists after absorbs and not before, but WE doesn't has too much of either anyway).
You vs high armor/low toughness+absorb (say classic WP setup)- you gained significant dmg with your nonproc attacks and some with your proc attacks, since dmg is mitigated by armor/resists after absorb and not before.
You vs high toughness+absorb- depends on how much toughness, you might have lost lot of dmg with nonproc attacks (somewhat mitigated by procs doing a little more dmg cause of being mitigated by resists after and not before absorbs).
You vs high armor+high toughness (turtle tank mostly)- significant dmg loss with nonproc attacks, up to those 1 after mitigation hits. Proc dmg from other hand works fine.
You vs high armor+high toughness+absorb (again, mostly turtle tank)- depends on values of armor and toughness on target, but you did likely gained dmg with nonproc attacks for absorb bypass (after you start doing health dmg, nonproc dmg will be less to much less effective, per above).

Is there a list of which dots can stack? Found out about the SW one purely by accident as the tooltips haven't been updated yet.