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Patch Notes 09/09/2020

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Rekoom
Posts: 55

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#31 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:47 am

ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:54 pm

[Combat formulas]

- Guard defense formula now uses same code as regular defense checks, but treats all damage as if coming from front. This means you will also see some disrupt/dodge of guard damage in combat log.

Previously on RoR guard damage checks were also checking against those stats, but using a different formula and always displayed as block/parry in the combat log.
Possible to clarify what was changed? What is the new formula?

Does this mean that previously guard damage was checking for location of guarded groupmate? Is in if he was behind you, you would not block guard damage because it was coming from the rear and those attacks coming from behind cannot be blocked/parried?

Would be great to know how the game works on this point as Guard is arguably the most important ability for group play.

Thanks for the hard work!
Rekoom - BO
Nelsha - Witch Elf

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dalen
Developer
Posts: 297

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#32 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:12 am

Foofmonger wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:49 pm
Fine patch, not a big one, but on this guy here:

"General blocking of some abilities between keep areas:

- Jumping with Pounce-like abilities to targets in more inner areas of keeps is now blocked. Jumping from inner areas to outer areas is still allowed.

- Pulling players between different keep areas is blocked.

- Melee pets can no longer attack targets in different areas of keeps"

Not a huge fan of this, it was nice to see pounces/pulls being used as counterplay in niche situations. Just because you changed rez parameters on keep borderlines doesn't mean we need to add in more "weird invisible walls". Having a bunch of abilities just fail now for what I can fathom is no good reason other than "respawn counterplay", seems silly. That being said, this is my own personal interpretation of the changes, and maybe I'm not understand their purpose.

Although melee pets running up the sides of buildings and not the doors is the issue no? Its a pathing issue more then a "the pet shouldn't be able to attack one".

I suggest reverting these and not leaving them in, but that's just me.
It was mostly to disable getting into keeps from various spots using pounce. We have had numerous bug reports about that over the years, and many of them have been fixed by placing obstacles (sometimes not in very aesthetically pleasing ways).

Here's a small selection of such bug reports that this change fixes all at once:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17674
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15794
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15919
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16294
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15555
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15556
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15553
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15554
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15558
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15559
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15560
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15561
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15562
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15588
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15587
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dalen
Developer
Posts: 297

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#33 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:16 am

Rekoom wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:47 am
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:54 pm

[Combat formulas]

- Guard defense formula now uses same code as regular defense checks, but treats all damage as if coming from front. This means you will also see some disrupt/dodge of guard damage in combat log.

Previously on RoR guard damage checks were also checking against those stats, but using a different formula and always displayed as block/parry in the combat log.
Possible to clarify what was changed? What is the new formula?

Does this mean that previously guard damage was checking for location of guarded groupmate? Is in if he was behind you, you would not block guard damage because it was coming from the rear and those attacks coming from behind cannot be blocked/parried?

Would be great to know how the game works on this point as Guard is arguably the most important ability for group play.

Thanks for the hard work!
The new formula is the same one as any other defense check.

The old formula also treated damage as coming from front. The main issue with the old formula was that the strikethrough from the attackers offensive stat was reducing not only the extra defense from WS/Ini/WP, but also the base defense stat.
But there was also differences in how caps were handled etc. Now it will all just work the same.
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Gurf
Posts: 124

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#34 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:59 am

Thanks for the good patch, nice to have outer keep wall defences back

Fenris78
Posts: 156

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#35 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:25 am

dalen wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:16 am
The new formula is the same one as any other defense check.

The old formula also treated damage as coming from front. The main issue with the old formula was that the strikethrough from the attackers offensive stat was reducing not only the extra defense from WS/Ini/WP, but also the base defense stat.
But there was also differences in how caps were handled etc. Now it will all just work the same.
Many thanks for the clarification and the fix !

That was clearly an severe issue considering guard damage is not mitigated at all.

I didnt understood why my 2H KotBS was about 37% guard avoidance (in 2019), and one year later my 2H SM was down to 15% despite his vastly superior parry buff... ;)

Foofmonger
Posts: 517

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#36 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:11 pm

dalen wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:12 am
Foofmonger wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:49 pm
Fine patch, not a big one, but on this guy here:

"General blocking of some abilities between keep areas:

- Jumping with Pounce-like abilities to targets in more inner areas of keeps is now blocked. Jumping from inner areas to outer areas is still allowed.

- Pulling players between different keep areas is blocked.

- Melee pets can no longer attack targets in different areas of keeps"

Not a huge fan of this, it was nice to see pounces/pulls being used as counterplay in niche situations. Just because you changed rez parameters on keep borderlines doesn't mean we need to add in more "weird invisible walls". Having a bunch of abilities just fail now for what I can fathom is no good reason other than "respawn counterplay", seems silly. That being said, this is my own personal interpretation of the changes, and maybe I'm not understand their purpose.

Although melee pets running up the sides of buildings and not the doors is the issue no? Its a pathing issue more then a "the pet shouldn't be able to attack one".

I suggest reverting these and not leaving them in, but that's just me.
It was mostly to disable getting into keeps from various spots using pounce. We have had numerous bug reports about that over the years, and many of them have been fixed by placing obstacles (sometimes not in very aesthetically pleasing ways).

Here's a small selection of such bug reports that this change fixes all at once:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17674
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15794
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15919
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16294
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15555
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15556
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15553
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15554
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15558
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15559
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15560
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15561
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15562
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15588
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15587
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.

Cornerback
Posts: 216

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#37 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:21 pm

dalen wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:16 am
Rekoom wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:47 am
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:54 pm

[Combat formulas]

- Guard defense formula now uses same code as regular defense checks, but treats all damage as if coming from front. This means you will also see some disrupt/dodge of guard damage in combat log.

Previously on RoR guard damage checks were also checking against those stats, but using a different formula and always displayed as block/parry in the combat log.
Possible to clarify what was changed? What is the new formula?

Does this mean that previously guard damage was checking for location of guarded groupmate? Is in if he was behind you, you would not block guard damage because it was coming from the rear and those attacks coming from behind cannot be blocked/parried?

Would be great to know how the game works on this point as Guard is arguably the most important ability for group play.

Thanks for the hard work!
The new formula is the same one as any other defense check.

The old formula also treated damage as coming from front. The main issue with the old formula was that the strikethrough from the attackers offensive stat was reducing not only the extra defense from WS/Ini/WP, but also the base defense stat.
But there was also differences in how caps were handled etc. Now it will all just work the same.
Does this mean the guard damage from undefendable attacks and DoT ticks cannot be avoided at all?
~~ Guild leader of Elements & Elementz ~~

Grombrindal (IB), Gromsson (Engi), Dwaini (RP), Snobbi (Slayer) - Carroburg/Karak Norn/Badlands/MS
Xeyron (Magus), Antyria (DoK), Antyrai(Witch Elf) - Karak Norn/MS

Sulorie
Posts: 4911

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#38 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:32 pm

Cornerback wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:21 pm


Does this mean the guard damage from undefendable attacks and DoT ticks cannot be avoided at all?
Yes, guess why you can't parry/block guard dmg caused by slayer attacks, while rampage is up.
Dying is no option.

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SmackdownNinja
Posts: 87

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#39 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:03 pm

Good patch! However it would be nice to see guard closer to how it was in live. Right now there is huge difference in guard avoidance with a 2h and shield. 2h tanks can’t get anywhere near the same dodge/ disrupt as a shield. Going snb already has numerous advantages already over 2h such as HTL, block, and utility. Having guard check for multiple defenses is just overkill imo. This especially makes it much more punishing for tanks that are forced to go 2h such as BG. As always thanks for the hard work everyone has been putting into the game, it is appreciated!
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Nuketown BW-81

TreefAM
Posts: 383

Re: Patch Notes 09/09/2020

Post#40 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:11 pm

well you only need 1 2h tank in competent warbands on each side
one bg for crimson death/hastened doom
one kotbs for arcing swing/overpowering swing so it's fine :D

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