Patch Notes 23/10/2020

[sogeou]

Well, I guess there you have it. Two cherry picked screen grabs of a twenty second window of time. Case closed, moving on.

I ran over 50 simulations for both classes and the damage was on the same level. It really would come down to crits and SH would crit more often. So, yeah.. Not two cherry picked items. Please post your data or details of same geared toons. Some of the items you were talking about were as Torq would say " Hyperbole".

[sogeou]

Somehow I do not believe you Soge, that you can kill enemy players (even lowbies) in 2-3 sec. as mSH. I agree that SH is lacking of burst as melee (rSH is even worse - my main).
I noticed that you are very (I mean VERY) sensitive on almost every WL post here on the forum.
I wrote it many many times that I do not like nerfs (in any form) and WL is not exception. I would like to see you enjoy playing your WL, but somehow I do not understand why do you have to boycott every single attempt of the other players when they pointed out that their class is underperforming against WL? WL is top example of melee DPS with awesome burst so it makes sense to point on WL when it comes to dmg burst when comparing. You do not need to feel aggrieved...

Numbers don't lie. Average targets has 7000-8000 HP. Depending of the class. If you are playing a WL / mSH with a bonus damage of 270 running 25+ crit you are going to kill targets within 3-5 seconds. I am not boycotting, just try to stop people from posting misleading information without correct supporting documentation. I am just amazed by how many people who don't run dps test. Gotta have a baseline for some items.

[Secrets]

Somehow I do not believe you Soge, that you can kill enemy players (even lowbies) in 2-3 sec. as mSH. I agree that SH is lacking of burst as melee (rSH is even worse - my main).
I noticed that you are very (I mean VERY) sensitive on almost every WL post here on the forum.
I wrote it many many times that I do not like nerfs (in any form) and WL is not exception. I would like to see you enjoy playing your WL, but somehow I do not understand why do you have to boycott every single attempt of the other players when they pointed out that their class is underperforming against WL? WL is top example of melee DPS with awesome burst so it makes sense to point on WL when it comes to dmg burst when comparing. You do not need to feel aggrieved...

Numbers don't lie. Average targets has 7000-8000 HP. Depending of the class. If you are playing a WL / mSH with a bonus damage of 270 running 25+ crit you are going to kill targets within 3-5 seconds. I am not boycotting, just try to stop people from posting misleading information without correct supporting documentation. I am just amazed by how many people who don't run dps test. Gotta have a baseline for some items.

Pretty much this. Eyeballing stuff a class has isn't the same as playing the game and experiencing the mechanics. Stuff like CC, movement speed increases/decreases, roots, guard, class mechanics, pets, debuffs, etc are all not taken into any consideration when playing the game and looking at balance from a 'this class does damage nerf pls' perspective.

In case anyone is forgetting, this is an RvR game. Not every situation will be fair, and you won't always be 1 on 1 with an opponent, and player skill, positioning, ability rotation, etc are all factors. If "class does too much damage" was the only factor, I'd assume WH/WE would have been reduced in damage significantly, considering they are both some of the highest single target DPS classes in the game.

[Freerider]

In case anyone is forgetting, this is an RvR game. Not every situation will be fair, and you won't always be 1 on 1 with an opponent, and player skill, positioning, ability rotation, etc are all factors. If "class does too much damage" was the only factor, I'd assume WH/WE would have been reduced in damage significantly, considering they are both some of the highest single target DPS classes in the game.

To be fair finding someone alone is pretty much a miracle.

[Neverever]

One of the reason given for the change was mainly pointed at the burst potential of the classes. Stating that a two handed weapon auto-attack that can hit for 1500-2000 is equal to a 1 handed attack that will hit for 200-400 because it is "faster" is simply irrelevant when it comes to a burst damage discussion. The critical damage tactic also applies to the Lion pet, giving the pet higher crits as well.

I do have both classes, and I dont think many will debate who is the higher single target dps class of the two.

The classes are different, adjusting both based on the potential of one is not something that makes sense to me. My two cents on the matter.

Do your own test with numbers. Eye balling things is not the best way to do it.
Same bonus damage, matching RR points everything is the same doing clips of 20's damage pulls. WL / mSH damage is pretty close. On my mSH I have killed people in 2-3 seconds, same on WL. Biggest issue with SH is lack of a speed tactic for the pet. mSH seems to crit more often, but that can be because of order not running FS.

Can't believe you are still trolling around with your lol calculations. I have told you before as well if you want to be real share combat chat logs or even a video. I can basically and easily get on both characters and show the dps of WL doubling SH with that way. SO stop childish ways of selling false data because no one is buying them.

[Neverever]

Perhaps the change for the White Lion is a net positive, time and testing will tell. Though I can't help but feel like the effort and time spent theorycrafting and coding these changes were with the White Lion in mind, and then thrown at the Melee Squig in the name of equality.

That's what I actually thought as I was reading the patch notes. The same happened when they decided to remove m2 double dmg moral. SH was added in the name of equality without getting a slight compensation for it.

[Secrets]

In case anyone is forgetting, this is an RvR game. Not every situation will be fair, and you won't always be 1 on 1 with an opponent, and player skill, positioning, ability rotation, etc are all factors. If "class does too much damage" was the only factor, I'd assume WH/WE would have been reduced in damage significantly, considering they are both some of the highest single target DPS classes in the game.

To be fair finding someone alone is pretty much a miracle.

That's also true... which means we shouldn't balance around 1v1 combat, and all of these situations mentioned in feedback aren't comparing realistic situations. X vs Y sort of comparisons.

[Cptkud]

mSH already has superior aoe presence due to the higher survivability and utility compared to the WL, can't have everything in one tree

Why are people comparing mSH to WL? They aren't a mirror class. Aren't the SH and SW mirror while the WL and the Mara mirror? So the mSH leap should be the equivalent to the SW leap. In fact, I don't understand why WL have a pounce to begin with, the Mara don't have a pounce do they?

As a pure technicality, Mara is mechanical mirror of SW (stances) while WL is the mechanical mirror of SH (pet)

Btw, thanks for clarifying.

[KissShot]

Somehow I do not believe you Soge, that you can kill enemy players (even lowbies) in 2-3 sec. as mSH. I agree that SH is lacking of burst as melee (rSH is even worse - my main).
I noticed that you are very (I mean VERY) sensitive on almost every WL post here on the forum.
I wrote it many many times that I do not like nerfs (in any form) and WL is not exception. I would like to see you enjoy playing your WL, but somehow I do not understand why do you have to boycott every single attempt of the other players when they pointed out that their class is underperforming against WL? WL is top example of melee DPS with awesome burst so it makes sense to point on WL when it comes to dmg burst when comparing. You do not need to feel aggrieved...

Numbers don't lie. Average targets has 7000-8000 HP. Depending of the class. If you are playing a WL / mSH with a bonus damage of 270 running 25+ crit you are going to kill targets within 3-5 seconds. I am not boycotting, just try to stop people from posting misleading information without correct supporting documentation. I am just amazed by how many people who don't run dps test. Gotta have a baseline for some items.

... If "class does too much damage" was the only factor, I'd assume WH/WE would have been reduced in damage significantly, considering they are both some of the highest single target DPS classes in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

[sogeou]

One of the reason given for the change was mainly pointed at the burst potential of the classes. Stating that a two handed weapon auto-attack that can hit for 1500-2000 is equal to a 1 handed attack that will hit for 200-400 because it is "faster" is simply irrelevant when it comes to a burst damage discussion. The critical damage tactic also applies to the Lion pet, giving the pet higher crits as well.

I do have both classes, and I dont think many will debate who is the higher single target dps class of the two.

The classes are different, adjusting both based on the potential of one is not something that makes sense to me. My two cents on the matter.

Do your own test with numbers. Eye balling things is not the best way to do it.
Same bonus damage, matching RR points everything is the same doing clips of 20's damage pulls. WL / mSH damage is pretty close. On my mSH I have killed people in 2-3 seconds, same on WL. Biggest issue with SH is lack of a speed tactic for the pet. mSH seems to crit more often, but that can be because of order not running FS.

Can't believe you are still trolling around with your lol calculations. I have told you before as well if you want to be real share combat chat logs or even a video. I can basically and easily get on both characters and show the dps of WL doubling SH with that way. SO stop childish ways of selling false data because no one is buying them.

Yes, please make the damage match. Pick any two classes and make their damage match. Remember to include your DPS time stamp. Start recording at the same time. I have given the info to others who asked. I am not going to do the work for you. Also, if you just look two post above your post, I linked my excel doc where I compiled all the data. I did not say SH was better, I said it was on the same level as the WL.