Patch Notes 27/11/2020

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retekelek
Posts: 99

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#321 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:04 pm

Open World Campaign

- As a test, exact population numbers are disabled in State of Realm. Only AAO and other warfront status will be shown.
As a response for this test change, i don't like it after a few days of playing. I frequently used the addons to see enemy players movement, because for me, the fun in this game is fighting against other players, not pve-ing an empty zone for lock. So before this change i could move to the most populated zone by the opposite side, now, a lot of my time goes whit searching and switching in zones for enemy players. And showing aao not helps too much when ur opposite side having it, so u just see which zone is your side trying to push, but the enemy can be other zones. Hoping this change will have more negative, than positive outcome and gets reverted.

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scatterthewinds
Posts: 175

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#322 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:24 pm

Can the HTL change be reverted please? It is necessary for dodge and disrupt to be 360 degrees.

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GamesBond
Communications
Posts: 533

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#323 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:41 pm

retekelek wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:04 pm
Hoping this change will have more negative, than positive outcome and gets reverted.
The majority of feedback is positive for now, and I'm not talking about forum posts only - because the very minority uses the forums - even though the feedback on the forums is mostly positive. I'm talking about player behavior in-game and you can see that shift into the right direction. Warband leaders, guilds and smaller groups are able to do a lot more.

However, back to you; Why don't you join guilds/warbands? Or ask in /t4 chat for enemy locations and allied warbands? Why don't you check the world map, where fights are shown? There are plenty of ways to get information on where's the action. Without SoR, you just need to be a bit proactive.
scatterthewinds wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:24 pm
Can the HTL change be reverted please? It is necessary for dodge and disrupt to be 360 degrees.
360 degrees HTL is not logical.
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heybaws
Posts: 80

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#324 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:24 pm

GamesBond wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:41 pm

360 degrees HTL is not logical.
How many members of balance team main tanks?

TreefAM
Posts: 519

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#325 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:57 pm

I'm glad we got this HTL nerf, it's honestly not fair those those pesky premades flanking my zerg still get buffs even though I'm shooting them from the side.

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Jabba
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Posts: 343

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#326 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:48 am

Just shuffle around in a mighty shield testudo, you only have to run a 4:1 ratio of tanks to other players to make it work.

Peak gameplay.
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Seti
Posts: 1

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#327 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:06 am

Do not like State of Realm changes - waste time trying to find fights.

Fenris78
Posts: 211

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#328 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:39 am

After few days testing without SoR numbers :

- We spend more time doing nothing but trying to figure how much allies/opponents are in each zone.

- There is actually LESS informations and useful intel in /1 and /t4 chats, since nobody want to spend so much time constantly telling whats is going on and what's they doing.

- AAO is by no means a relevant indicator since its the same ratio 1/4 and 100/400. Without a vague population indicator it's not possible to figure how much ppl are in zones.

- Spending all the time flying around zones, playing hide and seek, asling questions in chat for no answers, using our tp and long-cd teleportation options for mostly wasted effort is not fun either.

- Small group play is widely penalized : you cannot take actions without knowing what's going on, and you don't have always a scout (ie. WH/WE) to send and try to pick info for others. All is left to do is either wandering around with fog of war and blindsides on, or logging off of boredom.


To sum it all, since you dont even have info about allies presense (or not) in zone, you cant coordinate anything, you cannot plan strategies, and your reaction time is about zero in case of mass inc, for siege, etc. especially with the new respawn mechanic (wich was fine with numbers info).

Seeing numbers was fun and game was flowing in a smooth way ; is was still unpredictable because you couldnt always tell is opponent were about to siege with even numbers, you were fearing about a siege at any time with uneven numbers.
You could see unexpected turns of tide too, like winning a defense being widely outnumbered, etc. Numbers were barely an indicator of enemy activity, but more of a thermometer of things and what to expect (but not always).
Small groups could actually act by fighting in non-overpopulated zones and contribute with their actions (wich are limited indeed, but nonetheless essential), and they also could join the zerg when it was needed.

So yes it had drawbacks, like being able to see for instance small group of opponent sieging in other zone, where you knew you could easily scatter them with one warband, but it also allowed tactical moves for allied realm like reinforce the siege by sending more support. It was always a double-edged sword, and I loved it (and I think I'm not alone).


Anyway, there is clearly a balance to find if you dont want to see exact numbers in real-time, probably a population indicator like "small/medium/big/massive" for each side and zone, to help figure out where the action is, without becoming too granular and overinformative (thus last months were actually the most fun I had in the game since a long time).

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vastou
Posts: 43

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#329 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:52 am

Good change for the SoR change, please don't change !

For rsh , hope for more like 75/80 feets instead of 65

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ztil
Posts: 36

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#330 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:26 pm

I think it's a pity SoR doesn't show pop numbers anymore. My impression is that more people are just standing around in the capital waiting for a siege to start somewhere than before. I really appreciated when SoR pop was added originally because it was such a gret QoL improvement to the game in general to know how many players was actually playing in the zones and you could quickly get into action after logging on. Maybe also because I just generally enjoy numbers and statistics and to be able to follow them because it's interesting.

Personally I would choose to go to an active zone but without too much zerging, also to avoid too much lagg. So if one zone had 300 vs 400 and another zone had 40-100 vs 40-100 or something I would go to the latter.

I understand the argument about letting smaller groups/warbands achieve more and be more sneaky if there is no population numbers, but perhaps there is some way to do it without giving out exact numbers.

Perhaps one idea could be to use some indicator like "small pop" if less than 40 but more than 10, "medium" 40-100, large "100-400" as an indicator of how much action is going on in each zone.


Again about the Squig Herder and I will try to not write more about it because all of this is already said several times...

After trying out the changes to squig herder now more extensively since last weeks patch I can conclude that it has been solidified that the only spec for squig herder in oRVR warbanding is MSH. What little AOE the ranged had to help out with funnel pushes (like Shoot Thru Ya, explosive arrer and splinterin arrer) have all been removed one way or another or made impossible to use without handing out free immunities. Even a dps shaman would make more sense in oRVR warband since atleast they have some ability that hits more than one target.

The Big Shootin spec has lost it's finisher. I don't really think it's that good anymore and it was already much weaker than the SW equivalent spec (Festering arrow spec). It's a stationary spec with mediocre dmg without a finisher basically. Relying heavily now on the increased pet dmg to finish the job for while you stand stationary and spam plink and poison arrer.

Quick shootin dmg has been majorly buffed, mostly due to pet dmg with squig frenzy and the M3 that was moved to M1 that tripples pet dmg. Also the added 15% crit and 50% auto attack speed, red tipped arrer and behind ya 50% dmg increase adds to this. Targets melt really fast if you have good gear, and position (and they dont), especially when assisting on someone. However to run around in 65ft is risky business. If the opponent team choose to focus you and get's a KD in before you switch to squig armor (for extra armor and parry) you die quickly (for example WL pounce in and KD assisted by a WH/Slayer or even a 2handed tank). So being in 65ft increases the risk to be focused. However in which event would it be useful for us as an organized WB guild to have rSH? Well, maybe for casual premade 6 man sc' groups (however still debatable if it's really better than ST-specced MSH since the pet dmg works on this spec also and it's much less squishy) or it could possibly be a strong ST-group spec for cities. But would it really be a on pair with WE/WE or Mara/WE ST assist combo?

For oRvR solo roaming/6man roaming quick shootin SH the ranged nerf is devastating. The higher dmg doesn't outweight the loss of range. Kiting someone and always being within 65ft is not really an option. You need to try to burst them before they reach you instead, or if you're chasing them you can ofcourse kill them but how often does people turn and run when they see a squishy ranged squig herder come running to them, even standing in pounce range.

MSH has been slightly nerfed due to lower armor (with sneaky strike removed), and no more interrupt ability in squig armor. Also removing sneaky strike and interrupt removes 2 abilities from the rotation/choice of skills making the spec more dull to play. Still it's the only possible option for WB play. People in this thread keep saying "this is what you get for wanting what SW got". Remember, I never even wanted MSH to be a WB spec.

And I never wanted what SW got. I was actively objecting to reducing the SW Skirmish spec to 65 ft as well in that patch thread. I thought making some abilities have 100 while others had 65ft was a strange design. I still do think it's strange and I don't enjoy skirmish spec anymore. Which is why on my SW I mostly play Scout spec with Festering Arrow, VON, Bulls EyE, Eye Shot and Fell of the Weak which is a great combo for ST. But atleast the SW skirmish has some warband utility with barrage, lileaths arrow ands plintering arrows. I didn't want exactly the same for rSH but I wanted some WB utility while not messing with it's range, perhaps some group buff or some slightly increased AOE dmg with the use of Splinterrin arrer tactic (maybe reducing range only when this tactic was equiped).

So summary is.. Squig herder is 99% of the times going to be played in our warbands as a MSH. and maybe(and that's a big maybe) 1% as a ST dps in cities if we don't have 2 WE's and/or Marauder/WE combo.
MSH still has excellent mobility and it has the possibility to harass enemy backline with it's cooldown increase debuff and the Outta my way "Winds" ability that knocks opponents around for 10s. The AOE-dmg is pretty good. Below an equally geared Choppa but probably slightly above an equally geared Marauder. However you don't bring as good buffs/debuffs to your own warband like maras and choppas do and most warbands would therefor not bring more than one MSH. To reach the dmg mentioned above it is also dependant on having a Choppa and or preferably plus a Black Orc in it's group, both giving CDR as often as possible since Big Stompin has a 5s cd and you basically only have that ability and bad gas to use.

Unfortunately loosing the Sneaky strike ability which could actually crit for upwards something of a 1000 is removed and that leaves Wild Claw and Ard Noggin as the only ST-abilities without pet. This means that the MSH without a pet is probably not going to be very useful for ST assist and is best used in some form of Cleave-Mob/Backline harrass and then back to aoe:ing with the blob. This is a boring very simple rotation to play using 2-3 buttons max.

I did try to run with a pet using the new heal tactic so that I would have git'em as a replacement for sneaky strike and that seems to work for smaller engagements, skirmishes but most of the time it doesn't keep the pet alive and also loosing 25% dmg increase on aoe means it's not really useful for wb (pet requires to not use all by myself dmg inc). Often the pet dies before I recieve my first direct heal. Even if I actively try to avoid the cleave/aoe of enemies and run around to find another angle (pet doesn't care). So I don't think it's really possible to run pet in oRvR unless you stay entirely out of cleave/aoe dmg (which is hard since your own primary role is to be aoe:er). I was more successful at keepin my pet alive as a ranged squig herder (pre patch). If Squig herder had some form of pet-heal, perhaps a hot or if pets stopped taking aoe-dmg it would be more useful.

Anyway, to finish off, no matter if it's actually fixed so that pets don't die so easily in oRvR and suddenly becomes good for MSH. RANGED Squig herder has still always been my favorite class in this game, since live, and something that I was hoping to play more after a re-work, not less. These changes to it's core changes the playstyle of it dramatically. I was never a big fan of the MSH-rework that made this class into a melee class in warbands. These last changes solidifying it as a melee class in oRvR. It makes me sad and it makes me considering dropping this game since I'm really mostly interested in playing rSH. It has nothing to do with "not testing it enough" or "you're only used to 100ft and didn't get used to 65ft yet". I tried 65ft plenty on both SW and Squig. It's just that the new playstyle and limitations to the class isn't really enjoyable to me. I want to be in oRvR not stuck doing scenarios all my playtime. I want to be able to shoot some aoe abilities into the funnel, or contribute to dmg people on the walls or atleast be able to roam and kite. Whatever this new rSH spec is it is none of the above.

I didn't write any proposals for the class because I was afraid something like this would happen if the class was reworked so I prefered it to be unchanged. I understand Grunbag and others in the team have some other vision of what they want the squig herder class to be than me. I remember seeing this before on disc or forum, talk about some short range hybrid skirmish class that jumps in and out of squig armor and using hybrid abilities. The fact that squig herder is the only ranged class on destro actually using a weapon instead of casting magic doesn't seem to have been a factor in this decision making. Squig is now primarily a melee meatball first hand, hiding in side this blob of meat without any way to show gear/weapons and small range skirmisher second. SW is a small range aoe:er first hand and a ST burst melee second.

I would rather revert the roles. Let SW be a Melee AOE and squig a ranged AOE. Because looking at the faction balance, this seems like what is mostly needed considering how popular the engineer and SW is on Order and how popular melee classes in general is on destro.
[P&P] Ztil - Squig Herder
[P&P] Zlurp - Shaman

[P&P] Zinista - Shadow Warrior

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