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Patch Notes 01/01/2021

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Bloodmasked
Posts: 56

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#91 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:45 pm

people who want to pug city should go and play in the scenario that opens during city queue, or maybe go do some public quests instead for riveting content

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brocel
Posts: 19

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2020

Post#92 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:33 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:53 pm
brocel wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:40 pm
wonshot wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:21 pm
Whatever each one of us might think about Squigherders, wether we deem it overloaded, under or overpowered. Im just not too much of a fan trying to tie a pet into a largescale build.

Giving MSH one more aoe ability is cool, but tieing it to the pet smell a little of overly forcihng the "this is a pet career" idea.
pets still die in highend largescale, and if they become too buffed they will be overly tanky for smallerscale. Careful with the pet fixtion :)
This so much. I really like the principle of saying this is a pet career so let's make it. But pets are rely unreliable in a game where battles of these scales. Squig herder is already a lot to micromanage, and the fragility/unreliability of squigs doesn't help at all considering how important they are.

Even though my personal taste would prefer SH as a lone archer as warhammer world provides, I love that roleplay direction and it gives new meaning to playing my gobbo. However, I think it is important that the roleplay mechanics work hand in hand the gameplay, and both gameplay and roleplay compliment each other. And usually the best games to roleplay in are the ones who make the roleplay mechanics so well integrated in the gameplay that they become one.

In that case, I think the squig requirement mechanic would probably work better with something increasing the reliability of the squigs.

What do you guys, squig herders and devs, think about that?
It's a pet class. Kind of the name of the class. They're going to be pet oriented. The plans we have are only skewed in the direction of making them more dependant on pets, or rather rewarding skillful use of pets. Loner specs are a crutch, not desirable.
I mean, where did I say the contrary? I quote "I love that roleplay direction", "I really like the principle of saying this is a pet career so let's make it" I'm all on board. My point is just that if squigs are a necessity to play, they should be as reliable as the necessity they represent. I don't mind being dependant of pet if I don't lose my pet due to their overall fragility, pathfindings or bugs. Un

With vinyui you already need a tweak/an addon to know exactly when you lose your pet because of the UI. I don't call needing an addon skillful

If squigs are the core core of the squig herders and SH can't operate without them, they need to be worth it. Right now they sure bring something to the table but not always enough. Especially in the compensation of the removal of the 100ft quickshootin tactic. I find it's a pretty good idea to compensate the tactic on a squig, but I find the squigs right now are too unreliable for what they bring to the table. Like, if I was a squig herder now I would definitely stop the war, go to a camp and take the time to breed a new generation of squigs until I find them more acceptable for my war activities.

Starx
Posts: 319

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#93 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:10 am

I come back to read patch notes every so often. I was probably one of the first people asking for premade vs premade city que, seeing ppl cry about it is pretty funny. The amount of inflated ego's in this game has always been out of control, and people are already saying they wont que with their regular warbands now because you will actually have to fight other organized groups and possibly lose without being able to have blanket exuses for it. The horror!

Either way it does need to actually incentivize people to que for it, if the rewards are the same then its just been implemented badly.

Losing a premade vs premade city should honestly yield the same results as winning a pug v pug or pretty close, and winning obviously should yield more.

If this was implemented without increased rewards then I don't think the devs really know their player base at all lol.

Sponn
Posts: 117

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#94 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:48 am

Starx wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:10 am
I come back to read patch notes every so often. I was probably one of the first people asking for premade vs premade city que, seeing ppl cry about it is pretty funny. The amount of inflated ego's in this game has always been out of control, and people are already saying they wont que with their regular warbands now because you will actually have to fight other organized groups and possibly lose without being able to have blanket exuses for it. The horror!

Either way it does need to actually incentivize people to que for it, if the rewards are the same then its just been implemented badly.

Losing a premade vs premade city should honestly yield the same results as winning a pug v pug or pretty close, and winning obviously should yield more.

If this was implemented without increased rewards then I don't think the devs really know their player base at all lol.

Ahh yes fairness is unfair to me! I jest. I guess some people play RoR as a power fantasy and some just want good and even fights. *Looks at constant population imbalance* :D

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Arthem
Posts: 170

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#95 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 am

+1 for solo dungeons in the upcoming patches.

anarchypark
Posts: 1765

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2020

Post#96 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:03 pm

brocel wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:33 am
wargrimnir wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:53 pm
brocel wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:40 pm


This so much. I really like the principle of saying this is a pet career so let's make it. But pets are rely unreliable in a game where battles of these scales. Squig herder is already a lot to micromanage, and the fragility/unreliability of squigs doesn't help at all considering how important they are.

Even though my personal taste would prefer SH as a lone archer as warhammer world provides, I love that roleplay direction and it gives new meaning to playing my gobbo. However, I think it is important that the roleplay mechanics work hand in hand the gameplay, and both gameplay and roleplay compliment each other. And usually the best games to roleplay in are the ones who make the roleplay mechanics so well integrated in the gameplay that they become one.

In that case, I think the squig requirement mechanic would probably work better with something increasing the reliability of the squigs.

What do you guys, squig herders and devs, think about that?
It's a pet class. Kind of the name of the class. They're going to be pet oriented. The plans we have are only skewed in the direction of making them more dependant on pets, or rather rewarding skillful use of pets. Loner specs are a crutch, not desirable.
I mean, where did I say the contrary? I quote "I love that roleplay direction", "I really like the principle of saying this is a pet career so let's make it" I'm all on board. My point is just that if squigs are a necessity to play, they should be as reliable as the necessity they represent. I don't mind being dependant of pet if I don't lose my pet due to their overall fragility, pathfindings or bugs. Un

With vinyui you already need a tweak/an addon to know exactly when you lose your pet because of the UI. I don't call needing an addon skillful

If squigs are the core core of the squig herders and SH can't operate without them, they need to be worth it. Right now they sure bring something to the table but not always enough. Especially in the compensation of the removal of the 100ft quickshootin tactic. I find it's a pretty good idea to compensate the tactic on a squig, but I find the squigs right now are too unreliable for what they bring to the table. Like, if I was a squig herder now I would definitely stop the war, go to a camp and take the time to breed a new generation of squigs until I find them more acceptable for my war activities.

have you tried 'I Got Lots' tactic ?
I eat them, explode them, watching them die with joy. because i have lots.
it's expendable, literally.
i'm big shootin, haven't tested in city.
in orvr it's no more unreliable, in sc it doesn't die much anyway.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL6, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB5, EG5, RP4, SL5
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MedV
Posts: 200

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#97 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:07 pm

As someone who does organized cities I love this change. If I’m going to spend an hour preparing a wb with the right classes, a MA, game plan etc, I want to compete against another group. If I wana go against pugs with my premade I would just stick to orvr.

People complaining just want to make semi organized and stomp randoms. Real competitors will love the new que.

Why are people saying this caters to solo? IMO it caters to the hardcore players who want to truly compete!
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emiliorv
Posts: 839

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#98 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:40 pm

Wam wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:20 am
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:56 pm


- It will now avoid creating premade vs solo instances until the end of the queue time when it allows any combination to create instances.
My 2 Cents
Spoiler:
You know you are opening pandora's box with this change in design right? It really sends out a negative message to those who care about teaming with other players in a massive multiplayer online game...

There was already issues with que and now you are just causing extra problems. The lack of transparecy being a massive issue, the other night my alliance warband had played 8 hours... we instant qued with 24... and i know 18 man's who qued after us got a pop before us, where i am from que's work a different way not a RNG lottery. So having a number in SOR so you know your chances for "pop" would be a nice addition if possible (would also help with some people who afk and also reduce rage if people miss out if they know there chances of pop are low to begin with) we had a pop 5 minutes from the end... because a enemy order warband as per usual try to que dodge destro premades and get easy pug opposition at the end (there is a long history of this besides one or two groups that i know of on order side))

I worry for the future of organised in large scale and rvr with changes like this because... you are pandering to solo players and saying they contribute more than warbands. But not just this, you are reinventing the wheel for a small amount of solo DPS players from order side... and in doing so you are encouraging order to neglect healers and tanks and encouraging the archtype population imbalance... these players who have no interest in teaming can already gear up from losing and zerging in orvr, now they will be taking spots from premades who do the heavy lifting in crushing enemy faction zergs and taking well defended forts. Destro premades will be dumbing themselves down and having to break up and solo que to trample over and get priority before other destro premades to get a "pop" as order given the history of taking path of least resistance always will que manipulate even more and improve their chances with solo que lottery for the most part.

If FMJ, or ourselves pushed hard on destro many days in a row we got to a city and we get no pop... because people just solo que and order que avoid (as per usual) that will kill their motivation to push and shows you treat us lowly, that organised groups are beneath solo DPS healers in your eyes, who don't even get champion status in stage 3. That will eventually end up with people being disinterested and leaving because its a sour taste, the signal i see is screw premades, especially destro premades.

The current population in cities usually favours destro around 55/60 - 45-40 % so people are already missing out, despite instant queing as 24 man warband like you said in the past. There is generally more destro premades, but now you are trying to break this and dumb down the content even more and make it pure RNG pug teaming with little organisation, you have already dumbed it down with the removal of morale bombs. What you use in "ranked SC" does not work on a larger scale... you will end up with so much more drama, by teaming people of bad mentality or afkness with those on the other end of the spectrum, forcing people to team with those they despise.

I don't care if we fight LOB/NGE, or if we fight solo quers... it was pure RNG matchmaking you beat whats infront of you, if we fight the same people all the time it will become very repeitive and boring, and if we are GETTING THE SAME REWARDS FOR EXTRA WORK... then why simply bother? how is it fair? if you spend time gathering people and actually have to use assist and co-ordination... how is it fair you get the same or worse rewards than some solo streamer who afks most the instance in easier instance? People should aim to improve and get better in end game.

What is the vision for cities? its end game content... to me its like a dungeon, people keep on bringing alts (all the big boy fights on mains are long well gone) ... if you want cities to be competitive then can you not simply make the rewards global account based so you can play "mains" then send it to the character you wish to work on...

what is the definition of premade? because everyone's definiation is going to vary... feels like you making something more messy than it needs to be.

If with this new re design of content for a small portion of the player base... can I ask for the same treatment for the rest of the content, so that dungeons and chapter 22 can be completable whilst i am solo or without healers and tanks atleast? (healers do not really need gear from pve and thus hard to come by) this is exact same thing and logic which is being applied here... that groups of players who actually care about teaming with another are being placed LAST. Its simple if you do the maths and know order premades behaviour to dodge.

There is more premades on destro, you already instant que with 24 and not guranteed a pop... 18 mans get in before 24 man's... even though you mentioned 24 is suppose to be priority... now 24 man destro groups are kicked to the back of the que and will have to wait 30 minutes for a doubtful pop.

do you want cities to be competitive? if so can you increase the reward for "premades" and also make it account bound if you want people to play their main's and want it at higher level... because its basically pve / grinding alts to gear up... if it was competitive you will bring mains (but if you bring mains you dont gear up what is needed so its wasted) people play cities for gearing up... so why should solo'ers get the same reward and more priority for less effort? I need to know why they should get same reward for less effort (they take no risk and get maximum reward)... because you will kill organised groups and motivation to push any zones, and without that spearhead in orvr it will be even more of a circlejerk headless chicken zerg fest than it already is.

Currently there is 4-7 instances in NA time aprox

EU prime aprox around 15 instances

why do you feel the need to add more barriers to entry?

Destro pugs got with the program within the first two weeks... Order's simply refuse too and blame everything but themselves... now you pander to them again and they will still complain, especially about balance which they simply have zero clue about and talk with such major bias it is mind boggling.

I am passionate about this game and this server and supported for a long time, I try to raise my concerns in the best possible manner... this change just gives wrong signals in sense of direction and also for motivation.

Currently for organised forces its best to push to forts get some contribution abandon and let them fail and get medals via kills/bags from zone locks ... because city is far from guranteed no matter how much effort you put in. you could push for 12 hours, order que dodge... no pops for premades, then all the soloer's get in and not enough space for premades sorry... this is a ANTI TEAM and ANTI MMO change.

If you are so against people teaming just let me know now and i will move on and save my time and energy... if this is the direction you want us to go in and pander to solo leachers then by all means but if premades are just a after thought then thanks for everything i appreciate it, its been a blast.

PS. I've done hundreds of cities both sides, i think im on my 7th character by now... having to wait a mandatory extra 25 mins per each of these cities on a maybe and not definate city, seems like wasting our time for no reason compared to how things was.
Totally agreed.
Less chances to win joining/forming a pug wb...really dunno what try to encourage this change?
Even less chances to get a pop...what Will encourage players to group??
teiloh wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Rampage is overrated, RUN AWAY! was hands down the best tactic in the game.

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nebelwerfer
Posts: 395

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#99 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:04 am

I honestly think this change is a bold step in the right direction. If i had the pleasure of being an organized warbandsh*tter I'd welcome anything to increase the chance of facing actual organized opposition and get great fights.

Having said that, it IS really harsh to push forts, wait out the city que only to get no pops because there aren't any organized opposition and all the pugs to farm are already in cities.

You could always try to xrealm to the low pop side and solo q in the last minute, but yea - hopefully this is not the final iteration of the city.


So how to further improve upon on it I'd add loot to the gold bags of winners in organized cities and add gold bags for losers aswell (but no loot) like it was on release. Just to get some carrots in there.

And for the solo instances, I'd keep it as it currently is. Maybe slightly increase the pop to 36 like it was at one point, so if there is a slight population imbalance it's not such a big deal.

Would love to see ".surrender" options for the stages aswell as a ".readycheck" with similar rules as in scenarios to potentially cut down the time spent waiting between stages too.

Apologies if i am repeating stuff that's been already said, I haven't read the whole thread.

Akalukz
Posts: 941

Re: Patch Notes 01/01/2021

Post#100 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:22 am

Lheana wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:28 am
Goryak wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:15 pm
Lheana wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:08 pm
- Gotta Nosh!: Moreover this quest is no longer repeatable

Can you stop with the dye quests already please? They were made repeatable by other staff members on purpose, there is nothing to "fix" there.

See for yourself:


Azarael wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:26 pm
- [7357] Quest: Gotta Nosh! is now a repeatable dye quest.
Azarael wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:26 pm
RyanMakara
-Made a handful of dye quests repeatable. Any known dye quest from live that is either not repeatable yet or is missing rewards can be reported on the bugtracker for future alteration.
So first you have nothing to learn me, so no I won't stop. And changes that are reverted, it happens on like every patch in different parts of the game. So it's not because someone changed something, that this change will never get reverted.
But why? Why change them? Wouldn't you rather have people completing the content over and over rather than just one and done? So many things are gated and locked from use throughout the life of your charcter. take Influence gear. Basically unusable by the time you get them, so you are forced to get the for appearance, yet you can't exchange them. Dye quests that are one and done, so you can't ever use those again for different set pieces to maintain a color scheme.
-= Agony =-

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