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Patch Notes 20/05/2021

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wonshot
Posts: 814

Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#471 » Wed May 26, 2021 7:45 am

So its been a week.
Im kinda hopeing and expecting that todays (or this weeks patch) will be fixing broken abilities after last round of carrer changes.
But more than anything I kinda hope that the AM morale pump is truely not going to work on EoV. That stuff will simply be waaay too powerful for largescale and especially in funnels.

Looking at the realm vs realm pros and cons between each realm. If Destro tanks and overall pumps were too potent, then in no fair-world would a realmwide EoV Realmwide moral pump fit in.
Destro have the stronger morale pumps, as one of their realm advantages. This EoV AM realm pump is on the level of the the chosen 25% tactic that rightfully got reverted.

Blackorc loosing their main appeal for coordinated groupplay, and gets it replaced with a WS tactic buff which doesnt stack with Stat-steal. That one needs to be made into something worthwhile for BO. And EoV CANNOT proc morale pump. The rest of the path was really solid. But these two things must be corrected with future patches, and this is coming from Order point of view
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Nekkma
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Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#472 » Wed May 26, 2021 8:17 am

wonshot wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:45 am
So its been a week.
Im kinda hopeing and expecting that todays (or this weeks patch) will be fixing broken abilities after last round of carrer changes.
But more than anything I kinda hope that the AM morale pump is truely not going to work on EoV. That stuff will simply be waaay too powerful for largescale and especially in funnels.

Looking at the realm vs realm pros and cons between each realm. If Destro tanks and overall pumps were too potent, then in no fair-world would a realmwide EoV Realmwide moral pump fit in.
Destro have the stronger morale pumps, as one of their realm advantages. This EoV AM realm pump is on the level of the the chosen 25% tactic that rightfully got reverted.

Blackorc loosing their main appeal for coordinated groupplay, and gets it replaced with a WS tactic buff which doesnt stack with Stat-steal. That one needs to be made into something worthwhile for BO. And EoV CANNOT proc morale pump. The rest of the path was really solid. But these two things must be corrected with future patches, and this is coming from Order point of view
I agree that it is to strong with EOV but if it is not working on that ability the entire rework of the tactic must be scrapped and the old version be restored. The current version, but not working on EOV, basically means it is a much much worse morale pump than the one they used to have. Or perhaps I'm missing something.
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wonshot
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Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#473 » Wed May 26, 2021 8:32 am

Nekkma wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 8:17 am
I agree that it is to strong with EOV but if it is not working on that ability the entire rework of the tactic must be scrapped and the old version be restored. The current version, but not working on EOV, basically means it is a much much worse morale pump than the one they used to have. Or perhaps I'm missing something.
The wording in the changes are:
- Bolstering Boon On direct heal crit, target gains an Enchantment that grants them 20 morale per second over the next 3 seconds. Does not refresh or stack.

This is being changed to apply on any direct healing crits rather than just Boon of Hysh, which would include how Energy of Vaul currently works, making it potentially a second group morale generation ability for Order. This is the reason for the lower than 75/3s values
So the way I am reading the new AM morale pump is that Any direct healcrit will morale pump. So the old AM pump was tied to a 2sec singletarget heal allowing an AM to external pump outside of group, but with the new tactic wording an AM can party pump with crits on groupheal (direct heal) but also still have the old alternative of External singletarget pumping.

Simply restricting EoV to not allowing this tactic, would make the AM new pump a much better morale pumper for party. No need to pump the entire realm, that is waay too much. And it honestly still doesnt cover the main issue with why AM healers are struggling to get warband spots;

Runie and WP both buff their parties with useful stats. Either WP prayers for sustain/extra damage procs. or Runie will give willpower+initi.
Am only have a resist buff, which most parties already dont need because of Runie/knight options.

If the AM goal is to make them more group attractive. Adding a flat +5ap per sec on the Shammy/AM resist party buff. or maybe even make thinking outside of the box and giving them 5%resist penetraion for partymembers, then these healers are suddenly attractive for caster groups atleast and the AM bring a useful party buff which can compete with offensive Prayer or stat-value from Runie. (spitballing ideas here)
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Nekkma
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Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#474 » Wed May 26, 2021 8:47 am

wonshot wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 8:32 am
Nekkma wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 8:17 am
I agree that it is to strong with EOV but if it is not working on that ability the entire rework of the tactic must be scrapped and the old version be restored. The current version, but not working on EOV, basically means it is a much much worse morale pump than the one they used to have. Or perhaps I'm missing something.
The wording in the changes are:
- Bolstering Boon On direct heal crit, target gains an Enchantment that grants them 20 morale per second over the next 3 seconds. Does not refresh or stack.

This is being changed to apply on any direct healing crits rather than just Boon of Hysh, which would include how Energy of Vaul currently works, making it potentially a second group morale generation ability for Order. This is the reason for the lower than 75/3s values
So the way I am reading the new AM morale pump is that Any direct healcrit will morale pump. So the old AM pump was tied to a 2sec singletarget heal allowing an AM to external pump outside of group, but with the new tactic wording an AM can party pump with crits on groupheal (direct heal) but also still have the old alternative of External singletarget pumping.

Simply restricting EoV to not allowing this tactic, would make the AM new pump a much better morale pumper for party. No need to pump the entire realm, that is waay too much. And it honestly still doesnt cover the main issue with why AM healers are struggling to get warband spots;

Runie and WP both buff their parties with useful stats. Either WP prayers for sustain/extra damage procs. or Runie will give willpower+initi.
Am only have a resist buff, which most parties already dont need because of Runie/knight options.

If the AM goal is to make them more group attractive. Adding a flat +5ap per sec on the Shammy/AM resist party buff. or maybe even make thinking outside of the box and giving them 5%resist penetraion for partymembers, then these healers are suddenly attractive for caster groups atleast and the AM bring a useful party buff which can compete with offensive Prayer or stat-value from Runie. (spitballing ideas here)
Previously it was 250 morale on boon of hysh. Now it is 60 over 3 seconds on crit from direct healing. Direct heals are gheal, boon of hysh, healing energy and funnel essence. With eov and cd reduction you do not use gheal that much meaning you do not have any particular group pump and the single target pump is greatly reduced. I cannot see why you would use that tactic if it works like that.

Edit: And from smaller scale perspective one of your best heals are hot on cleanse (with cd reduction) meaning an AM with cd reduction would see very little use of this tactic imo.

Edit2: And with new aoe component of main hot I think a stationary gheal is one of your worst options in the windows between cd reductions.
Last edited by Nekkma on Wed May 26, 2021 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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detrap
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Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#475 » Wed May 26, 2021 8:49 am

wonshot wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:45 am
So its been a week.
Im kinda hopeing and expecting that todays (or this weeks patch) will be fixing broken abilities after last round of carrer changes.
But more than anything I kinda hope that the AM morale pump is truely not going to work on EoV. That stuff will simply be waaay too powerful for largescale and especially in funnels.

Looking at the realm vs realm pros and cons between each realm. If Destro tanks and overall pumps were too potent, then in no fair-world would a realmwide EoV Realmwide moral pump fit in.
Destro have the stronger morale pumps, as one of their realm advantages. This EoV AM realm pump is on the level of the the chosen 25% tactic that rightfully got reverted.

Blackorc loosing their main appeal for coordinated groupplay, and gets it replaced with a WS tactic buff which doesnt stack with Stat-steal. That one needs to be made into something worthwhile for BO. And EoV CANNOT proc morale pump. The rest of the path was really solid. But these two things must be corrected with future patches, and this is coming from Order point of view

If the BO tactic is to stack with stat steal then the IB toughness buff for everyone should also. It doesn't last time I tested (>2 months ago).
Knight 8x - IB 8x - SM 8x / Chosen 3x - BO 4x - BG 5x

Tenhi
Posts: 77

Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#476 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:37 am

detrap wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 8:49 am
wonshot wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:45 am
So its been a week.
Im kinda hopeing and expecting that todays (or this weeks patch) will be fixing broken abilities after last round of carrer changes.
But more than anything I kinda hope that the AM morale pump is truely not going to work on EoV. That stuff will simply be waaay too powerful for largescale and especially in funnels.

Looking at the realm vs realm pros and cons between each realm. If Destro tanks and overall pumps were too potent, then in no fair-world would a realmwide EoV Realmwide moral pump fit in.
Destro have the stronger morale pumps, as one of their realm advantages. This EoV AM realm pump is on the level of the the chosen 25% tactic that rightfully got reverted.

Blackorc loosing their main appeal for coordinated groupplay, and gets it replaced with a WS tactic buff which doesnt stack with Stat-steal. That one needs to be made into something worthwhile for BO. And EoV CANNOT proc morale pump. The rest of the path was really solid. But these two things must be corrected with future patches, and this is coming from Order point of view

If the BO tactic is to stack with stat steal then the IB toughness buff for everyone should also. It doesn't last time I tested (>2 months ago).
I dont think setting a precedent for stacking stats is a good idea. On the other hand the new tactic is 100% useless.

Dondabon
Posts: 25

Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#477 » Wed May 26, 2021 11:00 am

wonshot wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:45 am
So its been a week.
Im kinda hopeing and expecting that todays (or this weeks patch) will be fixing broken abilities after last round of carrer changes.
But more than anything I kinda hope that the AM morale pump is truely not going to work on EoV. That stuff will simply be waaay too powerful for largescale and especially in funnels.

Looking at the realm vs realm pros and cons between each realm. If Destro tanks and overall pumps were too potent, then in no fair-world would a realmwide EoV Realmwide moral pump fit in.
Destro have the stronger morale pumps, as one of their realm advantages. This EoV AM realm pump is on the level of the the chosen 25% tactic that rightfully got reverted.

Blackorc loosing their main appeal for coordinated groupplay, and gets it replaced with a WS tactic buff which doesnt stack with Stat-steal. That one needs to be made into something worthwhile for BO. And EoV CANNOT proc morale pump. The rest of the path was really solid. But these two things must be corrected with future patches, and this is coming from Order point of view
Do you really think rest of the patch was really solid? Cos i see a lot of other flows as well. I am not saying no change was good, but I think in general patch is very questionable.

Good changes in my mind:
- Magus/Engi lower dmg. I don't play this class, but based on a lot of ppl comments this was the reason why they were pumping so high dmg in cities. However, will this mean they will increase stacks/dmg on turrets?
- Aoe detaunt on WP/DoK - they are already most tanky healers that are almost unkillable. Now they need to think a bit when to detaunt, not perma stay in blob and laugh at aoe dps
- Nerf of squig m1 - it was way too strong. Will this be enough? I don't know, lets see, but it needed nerf for sure
- AoE hots of Shammy/AM - they were worse healers on both sides, this gives them some needed love. Hopefully this is not the end of it, I would love to see their core mechanic reworked as well
- Drain from AM/Shammy - it was way too strong, I just hope they are not AP drained now. Not playing myself, so can't see this side of impact

Bad changes in my mind:
- It's ok to nerf squig cos it is overperforming, but it was nerfed to the ground. Everything was taken away at once - dmg, cc, survivability...
- WP/DoK is already most played healer, WP most played class in general and extremely strong. To buff them even further is somewhat of a joke. I understand partially buffs to dps, but buffing Shield? Did you guys see smallscale shield dok/WP? Just check ranked stats, its dominated hard (are there even DoK/WP that are not shield?)
- Moral pump - Moral play is getting nerfed across the board again. Initial intention of game was always for destro to have moral advantage, while order would have advantage in row numbers. After double significant nerf to this (first dmg, now pumps) what is compensation for this on destro side? I don't see that numbers were increased, or decreased for order. Sure, windblock was strong, but it was playable around it. Kill zealot, pressure it to use def moral, drain etc. Now you are supposed to survive for at least 2min (you need cca 1:50 to pump urself to m4) without using anything defensively - very optimistic if you ask me as zealot player. BO had also choice - save for m3 to help drop, or do m2 to help grps survive. This choice is now almost taken away, or in best case delayed. Some other classes like sorc were not that impacted, as meta of pumping 4+ sorcs to drop order is long gone. This is all ofc if AM pump gets nerfed, if not order has clear advantage even here.
- SM got buffed so hard that it is in content for strongest tank all of a sudden. Interrupts every 5sec constantly & group cd reduction is utility any tank can just dream off. RIP IB, you had few months where you were desirable, now you are again tank class taken only if there is nothing else.
- BO - won't go into details, you agree with this
- AM pump - won't go into details, you agree with this

Wushi
Posts: 18

Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#478 » Wed May 26, 2021 11:38 am

After a week of playing I feel like the ap drain nerf (halving it) was a bit much... constant ap issues now on a class that isn’t particularly strong in any one domain... I concur with Wonshot that giving an ap/sec tick on their resist buff could be a nice counter while keeping the ap drain nerfed... and it would help in the group utility aspect.

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Kragg
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Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#479 » Wed May 26, 2021 11:55 am

Winry wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 1:31 am
loik wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 1:17 am
Winry wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 1:11 am


Pretty sure this patch made the competition closer than it was before, maybe you should test the patch out before you start making predictions just because you're main got nerfed Mr RR83 BO.
By nerfing destro?
You're never been in a competitive city Warband before, have you?
The self morale pump advantage destro had was insane + with the 2 cooldown decreases made it "almost" impossible for order to win against a decent and well build destro wb.

Destro is complaining here that the devs have gutted them useless while they still have a better self morale pump, aoe KD, Windblock, etc etc
Exactly. No more 6 Borcs morale drops every minute! I can point towards a few guilds who relied heavily on this ;)

And the SH nerf, -everyone- knew it was coming. Suprised it took so long, it didnt for engie. That was over within the week.
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Posts: 75

Re: Patch Notes 20/05/2021

Post#480 » Wed May 26, 2021 1:54 pm

Kragg wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 11:55 am
Winry wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 1:31 am
loik wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 1:17 am


By nerfing destro?
You're never been in a competitive city Warband before, have you?
The self morale pump advantage destro had was insane + with the 2 cooldown decreases made it "almost" impossible for order to win against a decent and well build destro wb.

Destro is complaining here that the devs have gutted them useless while they still have a better self morale pump, aoe KD, Windblock, etc etc
Exactly. No more 6 Borcs morale drops every minute! I can point towards a few guilds who relied heavily on this ;)

And the SH nerf, -everyone- knew it was coming. Suprised it took so long, it didnt for engie. That was over within the week.
Moral drop every minute is the only way to avoid OP rampage, SH dps only come from cd reducer (and one disappear now [who actually look normal], but not in the good way [tank vs dps for cd reducer]...).

With or without CD reducer a good order wb rape a 24man in less than 1 min, maybe you don't play with the good one (a full dwarf wb lol) :x

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