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Patch Notes 18/09/2021

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Fenris78
Posts: 394

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#51 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 pm

Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:07 pm
Fenris78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:41 pm
- Centuries of Training / Potent enchantment were already increased (no change)
When? CoT does 252 over 3s with 40, has a 25% chance to proc, is not affected by main stat and is reduced by tough. You can't make it any worse. The damage it adds is pathetic.
It should be at least a direct damage proc and not over 3s or be affected by main stat.
I think all abilities and tactics are affected by armor/tough/resis. Only morals are not.
CoT is not modified by main stat, thus not reduced by Toughness, it's the exact same logic as other procs that are unmodified by main stat (notably weapon procs and Kisses/Bullets from WE/WH).

I'll add potent enchantment, like CoT, are spirit dmg and are also ignoring armor mitigation.

So no, actually unmitigated spirit damage is good, especially when a SM can more or less reduce Spirit res close to zero.
It's a better instant add damage than the slayer/choppa ones, for instance, Potent is instant add (first tick) for ~170 spirit, CoT is about 90.
Both hitting on barely 15-20% mitigation most of the time, both can benefit from %damage, including taunt.

I agree the damage gain from new patch is minimal, but at least it's a inprovement. ;)

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 189

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#52 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:00 pm

Just checked again against dummies (instead of pve) and with bigger str difference and Concussion X proc does seem to gain 1 dmg per 100 str.
While Hemorrage is about 0.75 dmg per 100 str.

Pilfer, BS (Shock proc)and PE unaffected.

Guess I was just expecting a bit more scaling and for abilities/tactics/procs previously not scaling to scale now.. :lol:
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80 | ZL - Wildera +70

Husti
Posts: 110

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#53 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:40 pm

Fenris78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:07 pm
Fenris78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:41 pm
- Centuries of Training / Potent enchantment were already increased (no change)
When? CoT does 252 over 3s with 40, has a 25% chance to proc, is not affected by main stat and is reduced by tough. You can't make it any worse. The damage it adds is pathetic.
It should be at least a direct damage proc and not over 3s or be affected by main stat.
I think all abilities and tactics are affected by armor/tough/resis. Only morals are not.
CoT is not modified by main stat, thus not reduced by Toughness, it's the exact same logic as other procs that are unmodified by main stat (notably weapon procs and Kisses/Bullets from WE/WH).

I'll add potent enchantment, like CoT, are spirit dmg and are also ignoring armor mitigation.

So no, actually unmitigated spirit damage is good, especially when a SM can more or less reduce Spirit res close to zero.
It's a better instant add damage than the slayer/choppa ones, for instance, Potent is instant add (first tick) for ~170 spirit, CoT is about 90.
Both hitting on barely 15-20% mitigation most of the time, both can benefit from %damage, including taunt.

I agree the damage gain from new patch is minimal, but at least it's a inprovement. ;)
CoT might not be reduced by Toughness but by resis. WLs and SWs can't reduce spirit resis, thus it is pretty crappy on targets with high resis since the base damage is also very low.

I wouldn't say that the gains were minimal for all classes. WEs benefitted a lot with Flanking and Taste of Blood tactic. They can go full def and still do good damage with witchbrew and kisses. It was actually a WE thread that led to this change. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276

Maras probably also gonna notice this change since they also have a lot of procs, a Flanking tactic and Mutated Aggressor buff. DoK probably as well. So we have actually 3 destro classes that benefitted from it.

All the order classes that come to my mind either don't have that flat damage increase tactics like Flanking or Taste of Blood, don't have the damage boost like mara/SW or don't have that many procs as WE/Mara/DoK with dual wield. Which of the order classes really benefitted from that change?
Last edited by Husti on Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Krima
Posts: 514

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#54 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:58 pm

Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:40 pm
Fenris78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:07 pm

When? CoT does 252 over 3s with 40, has a 25% chance to proc, is not affected by main stat and is reduced by tough. You can't make it any worse. The damage it adds is pathetic.
It should be at least a direct damage proc and not over 3s or be affected by main stat.
I think all abilities and tactics are affected by armor/tough/resis. Only morals are not.
CoT is not modified by main stat, thus not reduced by Toughness, it's the exact same logic as other procs that are unmodified by main stat (notably weapon procs and Kisses/Bullets from WE/WH).

I'll add potent enchantment, like CoT, are spirit dmg and are also ignoring armor mitigation.

So no, actually unmitigated spirit damage is good, especially when a SM can more or less reduce Spirit res close to zero.
It's a better instant add damage than the slayer/choppa ones, for instance, Potent is instant add (first tick) for ~170 spirit, CoT is about 90.
Both hitting on barely 15-20% mitigation most of the time, both can benefit from %damage, including taunt.

I agree the damage gain from new patch is minimal, but at least it's a inprovement. ;)
CoT might not be reduced by Toughness but by resis. WLs and SWs can't reduce spirit resis, thus it is pretty crappy on targets with high resis since the base damage is also very low.

I wouldn't say that the gains were minimal for all classes. WEs benefitted a lot with Flanking and Taste of Blood tactic. They can go full def and still do good damage with witchbrew and kisses. It was actually a WE thread that led to this change. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276

Maras probably also gonna notice this change since they also have a lot of procs, a Flanking tactic and Mutated Aggressor buff. DoK probably as well. So we have actually 3 destro classes that benefitted from it.

All the order classes that come to my mind either don't have that flat damage increase tactics like Flanking or Taste of Blood, don't have the damage boost like mara or don't have that many procs as WE/Mara/DoK with dual wield. Which of the order classes really benefitted from that change?
WH = Vindication 35% / flanking 15% :shock:

WL = Primal fury 25% / Loner 25% / Flanking 15%
Krima WE RR 85
Krmalii WH 82

Husti
Posts: 110

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#55 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm

Krima wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:58 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:40 pm
Fenris78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 pm

CoT is not modified by main stat, thus not reduced by Toughness, it's the exact same logic as other procs that are unmodified by main stat (notably weapon procs and Kisses/Bullets from WE/WH).

I'll add potent enchantment, like CoT, are spirit dmg and are also ignoring armor mitigation.

So no, actually unmitigated spirit damage is good, especially when a SM can more or less reduce Spirit res close to zero.
It's a better instant add damage than the slayer/choppa ones, for instance, Potent is instant add (first tick) for ~170 spirit, CoT is about 90.
Both hitting on barely 15-20% mitigation most of the time, both can benefit from %damage, including taunt.

I agree the damage gain from new patch is minimal, but at least it's a inprovement. ;)
CoT might not be reduced by Toughness but by resis. WLs and SWs can't reduce spirit resis, thus it is pretty crappy on targets with high resis since the base damage is also very low.

I wouldn't say that the gains were minimal for all classes. WEs benefitted a lot with Flanking and Taste of Blood tactic. They can go full def and still do good damage with witchbrew and kisses. It was actually a WE thread that led to this change. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276

Maras probably also gonna notice this change since they also have a lot of procs, a Flanking tactic and Mutated Aggressor buff. DoK probably as well. So we have actually 3 destro classes that benefitted from it.

All the order classes that come to my mind either don't have that flat damage increase tactics like Flanking or Taste of Blood, don't have the damage boost like mara or don't have that many procs as WE/Mara/DoK with dual wield. Which of the order classes really benefitted from that change?
WH = Vindication 35% / flanking 15% :shock:

WL = Primal fury 25% / Loner 25% / Flanking 15%
yeah, but which procs do they have and how often do they proc? What is the benefit for them?

The classes that benefitted from that patch the most are those with increasing tactics, and/or boost, and/or many procs due to faster hits or increasing proc chance tactic. That are basically WEs, Maras and dps Doks. Correct me if Im wrong.

Krima
Posts: 514

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#56 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:19 pm

Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm
Krima wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:58 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:40 pm

CoT might not be reduced by Toughness but by resis. WLs and SWs can't reduce spirit resis, thus it is pretty crappy on targets with high resis since the base damage is also very low.

I wouldn't say that the gains were minimal for all classes. WEs benefitted a lot with Flanking and Taste of Blood tactic. They can go full def and still do good damage with witchbrew and kisses. It was actually a WE thread that led to this change. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276

Maras probably also gonna notice this change since they also have a lot of procs, a Flanking tactic and Mutated Aggressor buff. DoK probably as well. So we have actually 3 destro classes that benefitted from it.

All the order classes that come to my mind either don't have that flat damage increase tactics like Flanking or Taste of Blood, don't have the damage boost like mara or don't have that many procs as WE/Mara/DoK with dual wield. Which of the order classes really benefitted from that change?
WH = Vindication 35% / flanking 15% :shock:

WL = Primal fury 25% / Loner 25% / Flanking 15%
yeah, but which procs do they have and how often do they proc? What is the benefit for them?

The classes that benefitted from that patch the most are those with increasing tactics, and/or boost, and/or many procs due to faster hits or increasing proc chance tactic. That are basically WEs, Maras and dps Doks. Correct me if Im wrong.
Correct, but lets be real. regarding WE... small dmg increase! Kisses on 1 sec ICD, witchbrew still trash IMO.
Ok, deftards WE will be stronger.. but the games is not 1v1 wise. Deftard WE its a meme build for roaming.. has no place in cities / ranked / grps.


Im still sticking to armor pen build.. so ok, 15% increase DMG on my kisses. I take that.
Krima WE RR 85
Krmalii WH 82

User avatar
Fenris78
Posts: 394

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#57 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:30 pm

Krima wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:58 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:40 pm
All the order classes that come to my mind either don't have that flat damage increase tactics like Flanking or Taste of Blood, don't have the damage boost like mara or don't have that many procs as WE/Mara/DoK with dual wield. Which of the order classes really benefitted from that change?
WH = Vindication 35% / flanking 15% :shock:

WL = Primal fury 25% / Loner 25% / Flanking 15%
WH bullets are mostly benefiting from that (as much as Witchbrew if we got that way, an add damage WH doesnt have on his finishers)
- Vindication works only against 2 classes (3 if you count dps shaman), is not reliable (inconsistently proccing even under SoM), and you simply cannot slot this tactic wich will work 10% of the time, on average, when you need 3 mandatory ones to make any build working...

- Flanking, like every other mdps ? Not specific to Order, and you often dont have the luxury of hitting from behind (Feinted positioning doesnt count for flanking), either in 1v1 or into a blob.

- WL doesnt have any damage proc outside Pack Assault, wich deals crap damage once every 10s.

- Finally % increasers are not additive (i.e. 35+15 =/= 50), so we have diminishing returns on bigger increases.

Nonetheless I agree weapons procs will be a bit stronger, but still on a 5-10% chance to proc... Far from being OP bonus.

Husti
Posts: 110

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#58 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:25 pm

Krima wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:19 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm
Krima wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:58 pm


WH = Vindication 35% / flanking 15% :shock:

WL = Primal fury 25% / Loner 25% / Flanking 15%
yeah, but which procs do they have and how often do they proc? What is the benefit for them?

The classes that benefitted from that patch the most are those with increasing tactics, and/or boost, and/or many procs due to faster hits or increasing proc chance tactic. That are basically WEs, Maras and dps Doks. Correct me if Im wrong.
Correct, but lets be real. regarding WE... small dmg increase! Kisses on 1 sec ICD, witchbrew still trash IMO.
Ok, deftards WE will be stronger.. but the games is not 1v1 wise. Deftard WE its a meme build for roaming.. has no place in cities / ranked / grps.


Im still sticking to armor pen build.. so ok, 15% increase DMG on my kisses. I take that.
So let's get this straight. The one guy that was pushing for this change in viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276 is now downplaying the damage add for WEs, while it is clear that WEs with two procs and two tactics that can increase damage are clearly the most benefitted. And it is not a small add. With Flanking and Taste of Blood up you get 30% damage boost for kisses and witchbrew. Witchbrew does 450 unmitigated. With 30% it is 585 and it procs several times. And kisses get that boost now as well. And it procs off throw dagger. It is far from bad like he wants us to believe. In a time window of 10-15s you can now do 1000 more damage.

So while most classes got literally nothing and SMs got their damage adds boosted by 1 damage per 100 strength, WEs now do several hunderds or even 1k more damage per fight. Interesting...

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Krima
Posts: 514

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#59 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:25 pm
Krima wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:19 pm
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm

yeah, but which procs do they have and how often do they proc? What is the benefit for them?

The classes that benefitted from that patch the most are those with increasing tactics, and/or boost, and/or many procs due to faster hits or increasing proc chance tactic. That are basically WEs, Maras and dps Doks. Correct me if Im wrong.
Correct, but lets be real. regarding WE... small dmg increase! Kisses on 1 sec ICD, witchbrew still trash IMO.
Ok, deftards WE will be stronger.. but the games is not 1v1 wise. Deftard WE its a meme build for roaming.. has no place in cities / ranked / grps.


Im still sticking to armor pen build.. so ok, 15% increase DMG on my kisses. I take that.
So let's get this straight. The one guy that was pushing for this change in viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276 is now downplaying the damage add for WEs, while it is clear that WEs with two procs and two tactics that can increase damage are clearly the most benefitted. And it is not a small add. With Flanking and Taste of Blood up you get 30% damage boost for kisses and witchbrew. Witchbrew does 450 unmitigated. With 30% it is 585 and it procs several times. And kisses get that boost now as well. And it procs off throw dagger. It is far from bad like he wants us to believe. In a time window of 10-15s you can now do 1000 more damage.

So while most classes got literally nothing and SMs got their damage adds boosted by 1 damage per 100 strength, WEs now do several hunderds or even 1k more damage per fight. Interesting...
Wow +1k dmg within 10-15 secs.. considering the player land all atacks with flanking. No easy task. TOB is not perma also. Interesting :o


And Again.. thats how it was on live with video proff and all. The patch was a buff to all DPSers and not only WE.
IMO it was more of a FIX than anything else.
Krima WE RR 85
Krmalii WH 82

User avatar
BluIzLucky
Posts: 189

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Post#60 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:06 pm

Just to be clear.. Concussion X and Hemorrage IX are the 5% weapon procs, so it's a buff for all classes, SM specific procs did not change it seems :)
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80 | ZL - Wildera +70

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