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Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:23 am
by dalen
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:03 pm
Sinisterror wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:27 am
BluIzLucky wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:05 am


Which damage procs have actually been effected?

No change to SM dmg proc from Blurring Shock or weapon (tested Pilfer and Hemorrage IX)
That's because pilfer is always 150 no matter what. Tactics dmg procs are increased/affected and if you have wpn with 300 spirit dmg proc (SM) those can do even more than 300 dmg now. By damage procs they mean things like WP/DOK COVENANTS SORC/BW PARTY DMG PROCS WL LEONINE FRENZY/TRAINED TO HUNT/MARAUDER SAVAGERY PROC/ WH BULLETS WE KISSES/WITCHBREW AND MUCH MORE. Dunno if blurring shock is considered "proc" but i think slayer ID is actually dot and direct dmg that might be higher now?

Also Riposte is affected, jagged edge(all tactic procs are affected) and slayer/choppa reckless gamble is affected.
- No, the Sorc/BW damage procs are not affected by main damage stats like int. They do the same damage whether naked or not.
- The SW glass arrow is affected by main damage stat (ballistic).
- Shamans Ere we go is not affected by main damage stat. Divine Fury tactic however increases it.
- The Centuries of Trainings proc is not affected by main damage stat. Temporary damage boosts increase it though.

So Im still wondering what was affected and what not and what is a weapon damage proc for them and what not. For example jagged edge is modified by main damage stat I think and Centuries of Trainings is not. Why?
The change was sto make them affected by the outgoing damage multiplier stat (+x% damage). For a SM that is pretty much only Focused Offence or the Bloodlord Weapons.

There was no change to scaling from str/int/bs.

And the BW/Sorc mechanic gives increased critical damage, that does nothing to procs as they are not crits.

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:04 pm
by Husti
dalen wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:23 am
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:03 pm
Sinisterror wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:27 am


That's because pilfer is always 150 no matter what. Tactics dmg procs are increased/affected and if you have wpn with 300 spirit dmg proc (SM) those can do even more than 300 dmg now. By damage procs they mean things like WP/DOK COVENANTS SORC/BW PARTY DMG PROCS WL LEONINE FRENZY/TRAINED TO HUNT/MARAUDER SAVAGERY PROC/ WH BULLETS WE KISSES/WITCHBREW AND MUCH MORE. Dunno if blurring shock is considered "proc" but i think slayer ID is actually dot and direct dmg that might be higher now?

Also Riposte is affected, jagged edge(all tactic procs are affected) and slayer/choppa reckless gamble is affected.
- No, the Sorc/BW damage procs are not affected by main damage stats like int. They do the same damage whether naked or not.
- The SW glass arrow is affected by main damage stat (ballistic).
- Shamans Ere we go is not affected by main damage stat. Divine Fury tactic however increases it.
- The Centuries of Trainings proc is not affected by main damage stat. Temporary damage boosts increase it though.

So Im still wondering what was affected and what not and what is a weapon damage proc for them and what not. For example jagged edge is modified by main damage stat I think and Centuries of Trainings is not. Why?
The change was sto make them affected by the outgoing damage multiplier stat (+x% damage). For a SM that is pretty much only Focused Offence or the Bloodlord Weapons.

There was no change to scaling from str/int/bs.

And the BW/Sorc mechanic gives increased critical damage, that does nothing to procs as they are not crits.
Hello Dalen.

I understand. I also understand that it was that way on live as it was shown in viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276 which was the thread that probably led to this change.

What I don't understand is why you are not looking at the affected classes and balance first before you make such change. Even if it was that way on live, RoR does a lot of things different, classes have changed a lot, they got stuff they didn't have on live, other stuff got taken away and some things are stronger or weaker then it was on live. Bottom line is, RoR is not the same as live.

Looking at which classes are mainly affected by this change I can see three classes that benefitted the most from it.

+ WEs: Flanking and Taste of Blood tactics, Witchbrew and Kisses, high Kiss proc rate, procs on throw dagger at range.
- WHs: no Taste of Blood, no Witchbrew, procs only on execution, no procs on pistol whip at range.

+ DoK: Divine Fury, Potent Covenants, high proc rate due to dual whield, two procs because of two weapons.
- WP: no Potent Covenants, less procs due to 2hand, only one weapon proc

+ Mara: Flanking, stance procs, high proc rate due to dual whield, two procs because of two weapons, Mutated Aggressor damage boost.
- WL: no stance procs, less procs due to 2hand, only one weapon proc, no damage boost, Pack Assault.

+ Shaman: Divine Fury with Ere we go procs.
- AMs: no Ere we go procs.

Correct me if Im wrong, but it clearly favors certain classes. All of them are destro classes and classes that were doing very well before that change.

I appreciate the work and time you put into this game and welcome balance changes. I just want to point out here that it was in favor of one side and certain, already strong, classes and I hope there will be fixes and changes for other classes, mainly on Order side.

2h classes for example have a lot disadvantages compared to dual whield classes. No parry bonus, only one weapon proc, less procs of any kind.

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:38 pm
by Sinisterror
Husti wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:04 pm
dalen wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:23 am
Husti wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:03 pm

- No, the Sorc/BW damage procs are not affected by main damage stats like int. They do the same damage whether naked or not.
- The SW glass arrow is affected by main damage stat (ballistic).
- Shamans Ere we go is not affected by main damage stat. Divine Fury tactic however increases it.
- The Centuries of Trainings proc is not affected by main damage stat. Temporary damage boosts increase it though.

So Im still wondering what was affected and what not and what is a weapon damage proc for them and what not. For example jagged edge is modified by main damage stat I think and Centuries of Trainings is not. Why?
The change was sto make them affected by the outgoing damage multiplier stat (+x% damage). For a SM that is pretty much only Focused Offence or the Bloodlord Weapons.

There was no change to scaling from str/int/bs.

And the BW/Sorc mechanic gives increased critical damage, that does nothing to procs as they are not crits.
Hello Dalen.

I understand. I also understand that it was that way on live as it was shown in viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45276 which was the thread that probably led to this change.

What I don't understand is why you are not looking at the affected classes and balance first before you make such change. Even if it was that way on live, RoR does a lot of things different, classes have changed a lot, they got stuff they didn't have on live, other stuff got taken away and some things are stronger or weaker then it was on live. Bottom line is, RoR is not the same as live.

Looking at which classes are mainly affected by this change I can see three classes that benefitted the most from it.

+ WEs: Flanking and Taste of Blood tactics, Witchbrew and Kisses, high Kiss proc rate, procs on throw dagger at range.
- WHs: no Taste of Blood, no Witchbrew, procs only on execution, no procs on pistol whip at range.

+ DoK: Divine Fury, Potent Covenants, high proc rate due to dual whield, two procs because of two weapons.
- WP: no Potent Covenants, less procs due to 2hand, only one weapon proc

+ Mara: Flanking, stance procs, high proc rate due to dual whield, two procs because of two weapons, Mutated Aggressor damage boost.
- WL: no stance procs, less procs due to 2hand, only one weapon proc, no damage boost, Pack Assault.

+ Shaman: Divine Fury with Ere we go procs.
- AMs: no Ere we go procs.

Correct me if Im wrong, but it clearly favors certain classes. All of them are destro classes and classes that were doing very well before that change.

I appreciate the work and time you put into this game and welcome balance changes. I just want to point out here that it was in favor of one side and certain, already strong, classes and I hope there will be fixes and changes for other classes, mainly on Order side.

2h classes for example have a lot disadvantages compared to dual whield classes. No parry bonus, only one weapon proc, less procs of any kind.
There is 2 second internal cooldown on kissess,covenants, prayer etc all of these. WP guilty soul increases prayer of wrath dmg so technically you can have 50 % more dmg on wrath prayer with bloodlord wpn + 25 % divine fury + 20 % from guilty soul so WP actually gains more dmg on this change if you compare it to dok. Also WL Leonine frenzy is affected by this as well as trained to hunt dmg which is stance proc, also WL has pet that can proc trained to hunt so WL has more stance dmg procs than marauder. Also when using pack hunting it increases your AND your pet's AA speed by 50 %. Why are u saying that WL dont have dmg boosts ? it has flanking + 25 % dmg boost same as mara lol.

Also because of the 2 sec ICD on class mechanic procs WH's can spam finishers with flowing accusations and gcd is 1.15-1.50 seconds so WH can actually get 4 bullet procs in 6 seconds while welf can have only 3 kiss procs in 6 seconds. Also wh has Vindication tactic 35 % DMG for 10 seconds on disrupt which most people seem to ignore when they talk about WE/WH. Sure ToB is better but Vindication has possibility of 20 % more dmg than tob. Not sure what you mean by 2 wpns 2 procs ? if you have 2 subjugator wpns with same proc it still is 5 % and btw OFFHAND has 45% chance to proc(do dmg at all) from MAINHAND attack. Besides i have 2x procs on my DPS WP 2h wpn (800 armour debuff + 10 % chance to gain 45 AP when being hit) Because of ICD potent covenants is useless

I would love to have training constructs that do ranged magic dmg so u can test specs more and WH with 4 sove / 4 onslaught = 27% + crit dmg. 77% + crit dmg with tactic and on top of that 5 % + bloodlord + 15 % flanking + 35% Vindication so with this gear and optimal situations WH has 55 % Outgoing dmg modifiers and 77%+ critical dmg modifiers and WH finishers already do much more dmg than WE finishers.

Again im not saying anything about who or which class is better because i love both + Remove 2 sec ICD on career skill/mechanic dmg procs and make it 0,5 sec or 1.0 second max. Live all tactics that do dmg or change something/add dmg to something was able to crit, like Riposte (05 or 1 sec icd i dont remember which one) jagged edge or for example sorc Chilling Gusts and swell of gloom both could crit.

Leonine frenzy and witchbrew could also crit at some point but i dont remember if they did in end of live war. (WE finishers hit 2x times and there was possibility to have 2 kiss procs on finishers, and proc dmg came before skill dmg in combat log)

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:47 pm
by Husti
Kisses have a 1s internal cooldown... not gonna comment the rest...

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:03 am
by Hooley
Guys, this is a dream more than a decade in the making.

Thank you so much. Great work. Love this community and the fantastic devs behind it.

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:05 am
by Hooley
BluIzLucky wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:47 am
Thank you every patch, and what great accomplishment and fantastic event you put on.
Really enjoyed seeing the OG devs and how much they cared for the game to the very end!

And to think you'll be releasing Lothern and whatever Black Arc is at Fell Landing in just another two weeks is mind blowing!
I second this question. Will the elves be seeing the same city love as our dwarven and orc compatriots?

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:47 am
by wargrimnir
Hooley wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:05 am
BluIzLucky wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:47 am
Thank you every patch, and what great accomplishment and fantastic event you put on.
Really enjoyed seeing the OG devs and how much they cared for the game to the very end!

And to think you'll be releasing Lothern and whatever Black Arc is at Fell Landing in just another two weeks is mind blowing!
I second this question. Will the elves be seeing the same city love as our dwarven and orc compatriots?
Dwarf and Orc cities had a skeleton for us to work with, it took a couple years. It would be significantly more work as the elf cities don't have the same framework. We have some vague maps of what they might look like and a handful of existing assets that could be used to get started. They would take a lot more hand-made assets to bring them up to any kind of standard worth releasing. I would not begin to have optimism for such a project to be completed, but then who ever saw these cities being created either?

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 pm
by BluIzLucky
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:47 am
Hooley wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:05 am
BluIzLucky wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:47 am
Thank you every patch, and what great accomplishment and fantastic event you put on.
Really enjoyed seeing the OG devs and how much they cared for the game to the very end!

And to think you'll be releasing Lothern and whatever Black Arc is at Fell Landing in just another two weeks is mind blowing!
I second this question. Will the elves be seeing the same city love as our dwarven and orc compatriots?
Dwarf and Orc cities had a skeleton for us to work with, it took a couple years. It would be significantly more work as the elf cities don't have the same framework. We have some vague maps of what they might look like and a handful of existing assets that could be used to get started. They would take a lot more hand-made assets to bring them up to any kind of standard worth releasing. I would not begin to have optimism for such a project to be completed, but then who ever saw these cities being created either?
How does assets work in this game?

Can't you reuse like 95% of the existing HE buildings and items, and just put them together in a new way.

Lothern could be mostly waterfront as it's a harbour city:
The dock assets are plenty and a look more or less the same from Chrace (pq: Elisia) to Eataine (Glittering Citadel).

Add plenty of ships and market stalls (from all of order).

Then you have plenty of cities with building and other elf assets in all chapters and some of the noteworthy PQs (Tor Elyr in Ellyrion for example).

Then take a couple of the massive structures; like Tower of Hoeth, Fortress of Caledor, Woodsong Manor, also definitely take the tower from Trial by Fire PQ, etc.

Have one of them walled off by an inner city wall and call it the palace.

Add an under ground library/treasury (plenty of those around 2 just in Caledor).

Let the community create/write a good amount of the quests and characters.

Wall the land side of with an outer city wall and buildings, while the water side is just that.. and you basically just need to add water and pavement and that's your terrain done.. flat and easy.

You could add the Emerald Gate on the sea, using one of the gates between Shadow Lands and Ellyrion, just slap a new banner on.
Would be epic 1st stage for city fights, narrow bridge/gatetop with Sun and Black Dragons fighting and players flying all over.. But would maybe add performance and terrain/layout difficulties, so maybe a bit much for just two week's work :lol:


Dark Elf "capital", just copy their starting zone Black Arcs (if they are only half, copy twice and rotate), add more smaller ships (orcs and norsca welcomed), add more slave pens, alters and rituals, add plenty of their barracks, tents and barricades, call it a day (they don't deserve more anyway..).

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:11 am
by wargrimnir
BluIzLucky wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:57 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:47 am
Hooley wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:05 am


I second this question. Will the elves be seeing the same city love as our dwarven and orc compatriots?
Dwarf and Orc cities had a skeleton for us to work with, it took a couple years. It would be significantly more work as the elf cities don't have the same framework. We have some vague maps of what they might look like and a handful of existing assets that could be used to get started. They would take a lot more hand-made assets to bring them up to any kind of standard worth releasing. I would not begin to have optimism for such a project to be completed, but then who ever saw these cities being created either?
How does assets work in this game?

Can't you reuse like 95% of the existing HE buildings and items, and just put them together in a new way.

Lothern could be mostly waterfront as it's a harbour city:
The dock assets are plenty and a look more or less the same from Chrace (pq: Elisia) to Eataine (Glittering Citadel).

Add plenty of ships and market stalls (from all of order).

Then you have plenty of cities with building and other elf assets in all chapters and some of the noteworthy PQs (Tor Elyr in Ellyrion for example).

Then take a couple of the massive structures; like Tower of Hoeth, Fortress of Caledor, Woodsong Manor, also definitely take the tower from Trial by Fire PQ, etc.

Have one of them walled off by an inner city wall and call it the palace.

Add an under ground library/treasury (plenty of those around 2 just in Caledor).

Let the community create/write a good amount of the quests and characters.

Wall the land side of with an outer city wall and buildings, while the water side is just that.. and you basically just need to add water and pavement and that's your terrain done.. flat and easy.

You could add the Emerald Gate on the sea, using one of the gates between Shadow Lands and Ellyrion, just slap a new banner on.
Would be epic 1st stage for city fights, narrow bridge/gatetop with Sun and Black Dragons fighting and players flying all over.. But would maybe add performance and terrain/layout difficulties, so maybe a bit much for just two week's work :lol:


Dark Elf "capital", just copy their starting zone Black Arcs (if they are only half, copy twice and rotate), add more smaller ships (orcs and norsca welcomed), add more slave pens, alters and rituals, add plenty of their barracks, tents and barricades, call it a day (they don't deserve more anyway..).
Sounds easy. Will have it done by new years.

Re: Patch Notes 18/09/2021

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:57 am
by BluIzLucky
My thought exactly, looking forward to Christmas already :lol:

Then add another 80 hp regen pocket in Elf and a last one for Event Item/jewelry slot in AD/IC and you can make it a 3p set (with another 80 regen as bonus) and call it "The Ruinous Power of Three"