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Patch Notes 04/11/2021

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Everdin
Posts: 121

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#71 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:59 pm

Kheriell wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:25 pm
Everdin wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:17 am
Overall the Notes are okay, for they are smaller "fixes" but as mentioned before, could you tell us what drive you to nerfing ranged dps while melee already was superior in most cases?

Month ago there where the patches giving sh and sw a proper aoe spec, and while i can confirm that bha was not the funniest way to play it was before, removing it without giving sw another possibility to get enough damage on larger groups (split arrows + sfa is a joke for the range it has).

Another question i would like to know:
What was the problem with bha for destro? There are a lot of dots on other classes doing same or bigger amount of damag combined. Bha atleast could be cleaned easy afaik (3 dots with 1 cleanse).
i think the problem with BhA about destro is that we can spam so cleanse is a bit useless against it, ok u cleanse 3 stack, 3 sec later, 3 stacks again, not really fair ;)
and 2 sec later all is gone and sw is busy to keep bha alive and does no more "real" damage :P
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Acidic
Posts: 1889
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Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#72 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:11 pm

Everdin wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:59 pm
Kheriell wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:25 pm
Everdin wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:17 am
Overall the Notes are okay, for they are smaller "fixes" but as mentioned before, could you tell us what drive you to nerfing ranged dps while melee already was superior in most cases?

Month ago there where the patches giving sh and sw a proper aoe spec, and while i can confirm that bha was not the funniest way to play it was before, removing it without giving sw another possibility to get enough damage on larger groups (split arrows + sfa is a joke for the range it has).

Another question i would like to know:
What was the problem with bha for destro? There are a lot of dots on other classes doing same or bigger amount of damag combined. Bha atleast could be cleaned easy afaik (3 dots with 1 cleanse).
i think the problem with BhA about destro is that we can spam so cleanse is a bit useless against it, ok u cleanse 3 stack, 3 sec later, 3 stacks again, not really fair ;)
and 2 sec later all is gone and sw is busy to keep bha alive and does no more "real" damage :P
Probably those SW should be spending those 2sec to Lear to play , so often SW complaints are base on can’t kill a tank or guarded defensive built target .

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Arthem
Posts: 227

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#73 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:05 pm

Great changes for SW, even though some are reverted stuff. Please keep like this for a while.
Arthmr | Dourn | Arthem | Rth

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 254

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#74 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:23 pm

Thanks for the continued dedication, I like the tweak approach.

Nice changes overall despite nerfing my to mains (again) :lol:.. 2H buff yay.. finally DW won't have an +10% advantage (though I think DW dps is still higher than equivalent tier 2H?)

15f is very small and only really works in clumped up choke points, same with 5f it's pointless.

At this point I don’t think any class is so strong (except maybe slayers) that a nerf in one aspect of a class should not be accompanied by a buff to another, especially when it involves one of the key reasons those classes are included in organised warbands.

Both puddles for SH(AM) and M1 WoH for SM were reasons to bring these classes over others, at least for S2 you improved the healing when you nerfed the utility and when you reduced WoH range you made it M1.
Now you just nerfed 3 classes that by most measures were not overperforming.

Moreover WoH was an iconic and super fun ability, one from a game design perspective may be one of the best in the game.
Unlike spammable aoe slows and jumps, this was committing you to your action and could well cost you your life or teams life by not using another morale so requires more thought than using on cooldown..

You could have reduced the slow to 40% (since that apparently is perfectly fine to have 40f AoE and reapplied constantly) or/and moved back to M2 instead of keeping an incredibly boring and possibly one of the worst morales in game as justification not to.

Or.. you could fix Improved Flee so people tired of snares can spend points to counter them.

Or.. you could implement diminishing returns on slows: for each second slowed in the last 30 seconds you are X% less affected by slows.

Or given SM little longer buff/debuff, aoe slow, 2H ST punt or anything to compensate..

And lastly.. will be interesting to see how the Distracting Bellow change turn out, my guess is all the places that didn't need lower TTK will have it (non-competitive) and all the places that does (competitive) will be mostly unaffected, since you can still chain and cover most of a WB..
of all the things that needs a 15f radius and 50f range...

Also.. please fix stagger immunity duration to be 10 seconds per second staggered.. right now it is up to 50% shorter than other CC of same duration.
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +60

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phononHYPE
Posts: 557

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#75 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:22 am

As an aside from my green love, for 2h parry strike-thru, would this stack with WLs racial tactic, Discerning Offense, to effectively give +20 parry strike-thru?
Chasing the golden carrot that is my alts.

my 2h choppa ideas
learn about Initiative

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Evilspinnre
Posts: 97

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#76 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am

Having led warbands on both sides since the patch, feedback on the changes:

-BHA nerf is great. Fort have been far more reliant on co-ordination and not just "kill all the pugs with ranged pressure". Have not yet tested other SW changes.

-2h strikethrough is a much welcomed change for 2h tanks and WL

- AM and Shaman puddle nerf is interesting in conjunction with other changes, less ability to catch fleeing enemies.

-SM wings nerf, would have been happy to see this moved to m2 - was one of orders only options to prevent kiting. Definitely feeling the maneuverability on destro, especially on classes without snare immune skills. Warbands relying on SH or RSH to aoe slow with m2 instead now.

-RSH nerf. Definitely felt this in our small roam group, not a big deal though. Welcome change.

-Bellow to m3. Not opposed to this, however it is a blanket buff to destro. Chosen and Black Orks are reaching m3 in under a minute, order tanks have no self pump and take far longer to get there. Leading destro in fort we were able to push them with m3's and m4's multiple times because we had ours up far earlier. In city today, destro tanks were hitting us with DB constantly while also having m4's up in quick time.
Evilspinnre - Nightmare
80+ AM, WL, WP, BW, SL, SM
60+ Sorc. 50+ BG, WE.

Boomshakalaka
Posts: 2

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#77 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:13 am

Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
Having led warbands on both sides since the patch, feedback on the changes:

-BHA nerf is great. Fort have been far more reliant on co-ordination and not just "kill all the pugs with ranged pressure". Have not yet tested other SW changes.
I agree that BHA was strong in certain situations like keep/fort choke points. However, that BHA stacking was needed to build up pressure. BHA alone did nothing unless you had tons of SWs doing the same. It was the BHA stacking + m2 + spiral + vengeance in combination. It feels very lacking now. Flame Arrow damage is pretty low, even with tactic. Spiral Arrow gets blocked/evaded a hell of a lot. For Barrage and Lileaths you need to get close and need a SM with Wind to put pressure on.

The BHA SW had pretty much no ST pressure. All it had was aoe dot stacking in combination with their other aoe abilities to put up pressure and weaken targets. For me the skirmish aoe SW is pretty much dead after that nerf. I have nothing against changing classes but destroying the aoe build of SWs wasn't the best way to move forward.

ST Scout build feels stronger now. SWs pretty much stuck with this build now. No more AOEing...

Overall I cannot get behind this nerf. They said it was "not fun for the receiving end". Well, getting pulled all the time isn't fun either and while there was a counter for BHA with armor/tough/cleanse, there is not really a counter against pulls. We have to live with it...
Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
-2h strikethrough is a much welcomed change for 2h tanks and WL
loooong overdue.
Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
- AM and Shaman puddle nerf is interesting in conjunction with other changes, less ability to catch fleeing enemies.
Why nerf catching abilities without nerfing fleeing abilities?
Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
-SM wings nerf, would have been happy to see this moved to m2 - was one of orders only options to prevent kiting. Definitely feeling the maneuverability on destro, especially on classes without snare immune skills. Warbands relying on SH or RSH to aoe slow with m2 instead now.
With destro having more mobility on goblins and more CC like dok snare and mara AOE knock down I don't really understand that rough nerf.
Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
-RSH nerf. Definitely felt this in our small roam group, not a big deal though. Welcome change.
Yeah, it was a bit op. I can get behind this. It doesn't hurt their damage or builds.
Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
-Bellow to m3. Not opposed to this, however it is a blanket buff to destro. Chosen and Black Orks are reaching m3 in under a minute, order tanks have no self pump and take far longer to get there. Leading destro in fort we were able to push them with m3's and m4's multiple times because we had ours up far earlier. In city today, destro tanks were hitting us with DB constantly while also having m4's up in quick time.
Reverting bellow back to m3 was the right move. The moral gain is another problem. Putting raze as another melee aoe into m2 feels less optimal. We had strong melee blob aoe before and now the tanks can spam that raze on top. Doesn't feel like a good move.


Aside from that nothing was done to overperforming WEs/WHs, especially in def/regen builds and nothing was done about the poor performing physical damage dealers like engi in sniper or tinkerer build.

Everdin
Posts: 121

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#78 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:11 am

Boomshakalaka wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:13 am
Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am
Having led warbands on both sides since the patch, feedback on the changes:

-BHA nerf is great. Fort have been far more reliant on co-ordination and not just "kill all the pugs with ranged pressure". Have not yet tested other SW changes.
I agree that BHA was strong in certain situations like keep/fort choke points. However, that BHA stacking was needed to build up pressure. BHA alone did nothing unless you had tons of SWs doing the same. It was the BHA stacking + m2 + spiral + vengeance in combination. It feels very lacking now. Flame Arrow damage is pretty low, even with tactic. Spiral Arrow gets blocked/evaded a hell of a lot. For Barrage and Lileaths you need to get close and need a SM with Wind to put pressure on.

The BHA SW had pretty much no ST pressure. All it had was aoe dot stacking in combination with their other aoe abilities to put up pressure and weaken targets. For me the skirmish aoe SW is pretty much dead after that nerf. I have nothing against changing classes but destroying the aoe build of SWs wasn't the best way to move forward.

ST Scout build feels stronger now. SWs pretty much stuck with this build now. No more AOEing...
I also think skirimish needs a new orientation after the patch, with two front aoe on cooldown, a weak aoe dd without cd and a two weak dot's, you can cause more trouble with focusing the charging mdps with ST abilitys.
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BluIzLucky
Posts: 254

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#79 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:41 am

Evilspinnre wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:23 am

-Bellow to m3. Not opposed to this, however it is a blanket buff to destro. Chosen and Black Orks are reaching m3 in under a minute, order tanks have no self pump and take far longer to get there. Leading destro in fort we were able to push them with m3's and m4's multiple times because we had ours up far earlier. In city today, destro tanks were hitting us with DB constantly while also having m4's up in quick time.
Ah.. it's was an hidden buff afterall to SM (WW for EoV), AM (high heal crit+bolstering boon+EoV) and Sham (ere we go) with morale boost being more relevant.

Also buff to SW morale drain :o
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +60

ohmtastic
Posts: 3

Re: Patch Notes 04/11/2021

Post#80 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:28 pm

Well you didn't see SW in organised WB's and now you won't see them in pug warbands. Nerfed their damage and still as squishy as luke warm butter.

The whole SW RVR build was to attach as many DoTs to as many targets as possible and allow the weight of that damage combined with the rest of your WB to overcome the healing... This patch change has reduced SW average DPS output by 200dps just by stopping the 3x stacking for broadhead, which by the way is easy to counter with dodge % stacking, block % stacking an having a healer rotating a AOE cleanse, so why did this even need to happen?. You've also made it so the class is even more AP starved than it was before. It was a struggling class for DPS output anyway, now why bother with anything but a BW.

Glass Arrow allowed for more single target damage how it was before, now it is an ability that no-one will ever use (range reduction is pointless and the damage output at ~500 is pitiful compared to the basic eagle eye ability).
Steady Aim for a blanket +25% crit damage for ranged attacked for a +25% ap per ranged ability.... Flame arrow now 50ap, Liliths arrow now 50ap, barrage 44ap, spiral fletched and broadhead now 31ap each. You're out of AP in one rotation and you've only put out around 6.5k damage on a training dummy.

I'm going to need an IB to give me AP just to be able to actually do anything. Thanks for ruining this class for me. Now to make a 2h slayer....

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