Recent Topics

Ads

Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Moderator: Developer

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
User avatar
illutian
Posts: 26

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#11 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:00 pm

Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:48 pm
illutian wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:32 pm
Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:59 pm
-snip-
Um..no. The tutorial absolutely must be skippable.

I absolutely loathe games that force me to do tutorials.
You clearly did not read my post. Please reread it again. Do not twist my words.

My point is that the information presented is too long and wordy, and therefore will be skipped.
Nowhere in my post did I say that you should have an unskippable tutorial.

For clarity, Disabling skip is not a fix for this lengthy, wordy, text/image based tutorial.

Having an optional, autogranted quest that you can choose not to do, which is granted at specific levels, teaches players how to do specific actions, and is lore-friendly and contextual to the game world is what I was proposing, not an unskippable tutorial.

I'm not twisting. This is what you wrote:
Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:59 pm
I'm sorry but these 'tutorials' missed the mark.

I get that they're reusing old assets or something and they were really easy to implement, but gods, man - they're awful. And worse, they're skippable! No one is going to read these. For the same reason no one is going to read information dalen puts on the wiki in lieu of actual, contextual actions or indicators ingame for stuff that quite arguably should be visible ingame.


We have plenty control over the UI, hell, even have it channel 9 driven. Don't do fullscreen, skippable tutorials.

To me, it reads as a call for tutorials (what ever form they take) to be unskippable.

And, yes, I've played games where I was forced to 'do the action' in order to progress through the Tutorial Phase of the game. That's why I'm like "hoool' up".

EDIT: For the record, I do think a better introduction to WAR's system is needed. And I think, in general, RoR needs to expand on the Quest Help...I've had to use GitHub bug reports to figure out some of quests because most of WAR's web presence is now gone; there's no WoWhead for WAR.

Ads
User avatar
Secrets
Former Staff
Posts: 344

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#12 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:04 pm

illutian wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:00 pm
Don't do fullscreen, skippable tutorials.
To me, it reads as a call for tutorials (what ever form they take) to be unskippable.

And, yes, I've played games where I was forced to 'do the action' in order to progress through the Tutorial Phase of the game. That's why I'm like "hoool' up".
Have you read the rest of the post? It sounds to me like you skimmed over the intro, and then didn't read the rest of the post, which is exactly what people will do with these giant fullscreen text/image tutorials. Given the context you can clearly see that's not what I was proposing. I've edited my intro to that post for clarity, though.

It now reads:

I get that they're reusing old assets or something and they were really easy to implement, but gods, man - they're awful. And worse, they're skippable! No one is going to read these. For the same reason no one is going to read information dalen puts on the wiki - in lieu of actual, contextual actions or indicators ingame for stuff that quite arguably should be visible ingame. So even if you were to make them unskippable, they'd be a nuisance.

For quest help, I think world indicators over objectives are lacking in a lot of places, but this is mostly DB work and I don't think our DB devs are willing to do that unless they're instructed to.
Those indicators did exist on live for a lot of game objects that are lacking here.

User avatar
illutian
Posts: 26

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#13 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:29 pm

Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:04 pm
illutian wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:00 pm
Don't do fullscreen, skippable tutorials.
To me, it reads as a call for tutorials (what ever form they take) to be unskippable.

And, yes, I've played games where I was forced to 'do the action' in order to progress through the Tutorial Phase of the game. That's why I'm like "hoool' up".
Have you read the rest of the post? Given the context you can clearly see that's not what I was proposing. I've edited my intro to that post for clarity, though.
I get that they're reusing old assets or something and they were really easy to implement, but gods, man - they're awful. And worse, they're skippable! No one is going to read these. For the same reason no one is going to read information dalen puts on the wiki - in lieu of actual, contextual actions or indicators ingame for stuff that quite arguably should be visible ingame. So even if you were to make them unskippable, they'd be a nuisance.
For quest help, I think world indicators over objectives are lacking in a lot of places, but this is mostly DB work and I don't think our DB devs are willing to do that unless they're instructed to.
Those indicators did exist on live for a lot of game objects that are lacking here.
It sort of reads, again, as I'm interpreting, like a nod towards the Halo tutorials....a mix of the Halo CE forced tutorial (which isn't really interactive except for the camera part) and Halo Infinite optional tutorials.

One of the immediate issues I see though, and not with your idea, but with the game's design. Class Resource dumps. I'm thinking classes like Witch Hunter, which doesn't start off with a Executions dump ability.

And I think it's really bad design in any game to have 'The Tutorial' broken up. I think of it like school. You don't go to Middle School, get a few years older, go back to school (High school). You, instead, progress through all the grade levels and then you're done (unless you choose to go on to a Trade School/College).

So...that would mean everyone would need to start off at like lvl 10; maybe 5. Depends on when all classes have access to at least one: AP dump, Class Resource charger, and Class Resource dump skill.

I think another issue is the auto-training. Leveling WP, so many times I 'just noticed' a new ability now slotted on my bar. Now, I'm not saying it needs to cost anything. But if the code requires it..1 Brass.

((I could go in depth, but...wall of text and all.))

regularspecial
Posts: 27

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#14 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:18 pm

are the BO tactic bugs fixed?

User avatar
ekalime
Developer
Posts: 100

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#15 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:30 pm

Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:48 pm
illutian wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:32 pm
Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:59 pm
-snip-
Um..no. The tutorial absolutely must be skippable.

I absolutely loathe games that force me to do tutorials.
You clearly did not read my post. Please reread it again. Do not twist my words.
Not to stir the pot, but you clearly didn't read the patch notes :D All we did was re-dd the Forces of Order/Destruction default guilds for un-guilded players. Those pop-up text-boxes of the tutorial have been there for ages...

Automation
Posts: 64

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#16 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:30 pm

Secrets wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:48 pm


You clearly did not read my post. Please reread it again. Do not twist my words.
Are you ok?
* And worse, they're skippable! *
You clearly did include that.
Take a chill pill

User avatar
Gangan
Posts: 600

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#17 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:50 pm

ekalime wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:30 pm
Not to stir the pot, but you clearly didn't read the patch notes :D All we did was re-dd the Forces of Order/Destruction default guilds for un-guilded players. Those pop-up text-boxes of the tutorial have been there for ages...
So what does this mean? I'm a bit confused^^
ReturnOfReckoning wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:29 pm
(...)
Tutotial

- New tutorial windows now appear for new characters when progressing through the first few chapters of the game. We will be introducing more of these over time to introduce new players to concepts less prevalent in other games such as Scenarios and Open Realm vs Realm.
(...)
(btw there's a typo in Tutorial;))
Pächter des Wahnsinns
Gangan - SH 71 .... Blumnmoscha - BO 63
Scophis - Zealot 72 .... Drengur - WP 64
Iznogoud - Sham 40+ .... Bixo - Engie 50+
Apogemoth - Magus 40+
originating from Drakenwald

User avatar
Tanski
Posts: 185

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#18 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:15 pm

Starter guilds and more new player experience focus is a great change. Every time I make a new char I see brand new players running around t1, mostly clueless so getting these people to 16 as quickly and smoothly as possible would be great for retention.

Speaking of that, any thoughts on adding a mechanic to speed up t1 leveling and adding a tutorial at 16 to introduce t4? Outside of mechanics a real focus on bolster and how strong it is so they aren’t discouraged. And t4 is generally much more enjoyable than t1. I know in recent chars I have made in NA I have had to lvl in pve bc t1 is completely dead at that time.
75+ BG
70+ Choppa/slyer
80 wl
70 + sm
60+ bw/sorc
70+ wh, 40 we

Ads
User avatar
illutian
Posts: 26

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#19 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:25 pm

ekalime wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:30 pm
All we did was re-dd the Forces of Order/Destruction default guilds for un-guilded players.
And there's no explanation on how to join these NPC Guilds. I, as a guildless lvl 40 WP, walked up to an NPC that said it was a Guild Recruiter, clicked on them....and nothing.

The way it's worded is if I'm above lvl 5 and not in a guild, I can join this NPC Guild...

I am above lvl 5. I am not in a gild.

...I cannot join this NPC Guild.

Am I going about it correctly? Who's to say. There's no short guide telling someone how to join this NPC Guild.

EDIT: Additionally, why lvl 5? EVE Online immediately puts you into an NPC Guild (Corporation) upon character creation. Why make players 'go solo' for 5 levels before finally getting put into a Guild, which will suddenly start flooding their chat and leave them wondering what's going on.

Like, put them in at the start, then throw up a Guild Tutorial letting them know they're in an NPC Guild and how to join a Player-created one.
Last edited by illutian on Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
You have to learn the rules of the game. Then play better than anyone else.

User avatar
zulnam
Posts: 684

Re: Patch Notes 07/07/2022

Post#20 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 pm

Starter guilds is a great idea. Might even get some of the veterans to group up and make new friends.

Kind of agree with Secrets. I don't think reworked popups are as useful as you think.

like i said prior, and imo, for a MMO the best way to get new players up to speed is youtube tutorials. could be split into playlists: absolute basics ( for people completely new to the MMORPG genre), beginner, advanced and classes. 5-7 minute videos that get to the point.

Overall still a good attempt in the necessary direction.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, Mara, SH, BG

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Eisboleas, Glorian and 25 guests