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Meleetrain during reikland siege

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Sarnai
Posts: 117

Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#21 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:51 am

Omegus wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:00 am
mytreds wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 pm
Funny when GMs who play destro abuse their powers and yet not a peep from you folks. Hmmmm

However, the train was in poor taste.
If this is Gorbane, he owned up immediately and apologise for accidently killing the keep lord (had the GM kill macro on his hotbar). Immediate server wide announcement. We all laughed and moved on. It was a PvE siege anyway as order were in another zone and destro was already killing the lord in Kadrin Valley.
This is just downright disingenous. Order was finishing up Fell Landing and were going to make it in time to jump to KV and stop the destro seige but 'oops I accidentally killed the lord'. Right. Nothing to do with fast-tracking Stonewatch before Order could get there. Destro has gotten 5-star keeps locked while Order is told '5 star is broken, go take the destro keep.' I've seen GM Vanishes used to avoid dying. It's a private server and their rules are their own so whatever, but don't pretend like they don't pull ****.
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mytreds
Posts: 137

Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#22 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:11 am

Omegus wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:00 am
mytreds wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 pm
Funny when GMs who play destro abuse their powers and yet not a peep from you folks. Hmmmm

However, the train was in poor taste.
If this is Gorbane, he owned up immediately and apologise for accidently killing the keep lord (had the GM kill macro on his hotbar). Immediate server wide announcement. We all laughed and moved on. It was a PvE siege anyway as order were in another zone and destro was already killing the lord in Kadrin Valley.
Oh, well then I guess you can laugh this episode off too then eh?

Didn’t know PvE had sieges btw.

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desizt
Posts: 114
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Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#23 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:23 am

Destro players left because they failed to push Reik for hours, even before Secrets logged on... The last wipe was the last drop for many.

The "meleetrain" didn't cause any problems, Destro was already inside the keep but because they started to push 3rd and dpsing Lord leaving no defense to bottom basically, they literally got flanked and overran by massive Order warbands. They got sandwiched and wiped and people were tired and left.

You don't need to blame Secrets or call names due to your own incompetency.

Fun interactions from GMs are a nice touch and people should not start pointing fingers due to their own shortcomings.

TL;DR with or without the train object, the outcome woulda been exactly the same, because you suck.
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Secrets
Developer
Posts: 207

Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#24 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:37 am

Hey guys,

It's my birthday, I was having fun with the community. But I realize that's not an acceptable excuse for something that people have pointed out was questionable, something I know was questionable, and ultimately intended as a joke or prank.

I would like to point out that some people find this kind of thing absolutely hilarious, and then there's others that don't. Clearly, I pissed off a lot of those that are taking this game and especially ORvR super seriously. And again, the intent was not to disrupt, but to play a prank on everyone. Not just one faction, not a specific group of peoples/persons, yadda yadda...

But all of that's no excuse for picking a poor time and place to do shenanigans like I did. And, of course, my reaction didn't help at all on the livestream which fueled the fire.

This traingate situation was blown way out of proportion, but could have been avoided entirely had I not done it to begin with. Also, apologies to the gentleman in the chat (Gerwolf) in which I had falsely accused the player of something. That's really something that was uncalled for, and I'm sorry about that. I've talked with him in private after the livestream. To the guy that was banned for flaming Grimnir on the RoR discord, please PM me on these forums. I'll see about getting your discord access granted again.


Killing two people with GM commands, in which those two people were in the middle of a city instance on top of a statue at Emperor's Circle that they were punted on top of and not moving from, is perfectly acceptable GM behavior and should be used to remedy exploiters. However, I must also mention that I did wait until the round is over to remove them (albeit rather violently), as I felt that it would be unfair to them to kill them as the round was in progress. If someone truly had a grievance with it besides me, they could PM me and I could take care of it and if recorded those players would likely be punished appropriately that were exploiting. After the city siege.

Regarding the 5star lock situation: We were flipping 5star zone takes manually for quite a while. The code was rather bugged to hell and back for it. Eventually, Grimnir stepped in and said for us to stop wasting our time as devs/GMs on stuff like that. That was not communicated to the public, and we'll try and do a better job with that.

We're open to suggestions on how we can make communication much better. Feel free to PM me or GamesBond, our current CM with ideas on how to present GM policy better. As always, though, ignorance to the rules is not an excuse to break them. To that extent, we're all a bit guilty, but trying to improve it. We're only human and we can't keep ourselves or the playerbase up on a pedestal.

Regarding Gorbane's actions - The man has been invaluable to the GM team. He's doing a great job with behind-the-scenes investigations. But like everyone else (including me) we all have our flaws and emotions that do come out at times.

The incident where one of the people in Gorbane's warband reported someone on the opposite team (a White Lion player) for an offensive name (which was really questionable if it was offensive or not) and the player had a name change performed mid-city siege.

This normally would be okay, but if it's something as minor as a name change, it could probably wait until it is more convenient for the person getting their name changed, and not when a GM is facing the player in a 24v24 scenario where the player is one of the top players. We've instructed Gorbane to make good on that, I played a bit of damage control as I didn't know the full situation, and I apologized personally to the player that was affected and passed the info on to the appropriate channels.

Lastly, the whole .kill command issue with Gorbane - Sometimes, there are legitimate reasons for killing another player. Them getting stuck being alive, dead, etc, lot of different things actually can go wrong with the game. Players may reach out to a GM in getting immediate help with their problem. I don't think Gorbane realized having a macro for this was a bad idea. However, he's a relatively new GM and I think he had good intentions and this was an honest mistake. If it keeps happening repeatedly, we'll investigate further and I know damn well that Griminir is looking at his logs every day to see if he **** up again.

I hope that clears up almost all of the GM incidents and the thought process behind them. One of the biggest problems we never fixed for years is transparency and accountability for actions. We discuss something internally, we never air out our thought process, players see us as evil and inhumane for taking punishing actions against the community, and feelings get hurt.

However, one thing I won't take back on my stream: the fact that people do find just about anything to complain about. The train incident is likely rightfully something you should be mad about.

What's NOT okay is attacking me for things I *didn't* do unrelated to the action in question. Stacking up personal attacks and vendettas on something on one person, one time, in a history of 3 years that's pretty much spotless in terms of abuse.

For example, critiquing my gameplay and saying I am not knowledgeable about the game is fine, but doing so - while blaming the state of balance of the game solely on my supposed 'lack' of knowledge by stating that I was the reason the class I play is overpowered - is not okay.

In the time playing White Lion, I've basically been around for 1 rework (removed frontloaded burst from CS, and replaced it with sustain; a net nerf to WL's burst), 4 nerfs (Leg Tear, Cleave Limb Change, Morale 1 root change, revert of entire Torquemadra Guardian spec, and removal of a core tactic WL used to have that shared all incoming heals on you with the pet), and 1 positive buff, a tactic change (Hack and Slash, which was widely considered underpowered. There was a good year of gameplay where WBs refused to bring WLs as they were useless even after this change.) which was proposed by the at-the-time balance moderators as a compromise as their rework was scrapped.

To say that I've done anything to benefit my class with buffs directly is not only false, but insulting on a personal level and feels laced with personal attacks. Do not be upset with me because of a class change which was an overall nerf to WL's burst potential. Be upset with me when I make actual missteps like this. And I assume the rest of the team should be held accountable in the same manner.

I am locking this thread. There is no more discussion to be had here. I'm sorry and I realize apologizing won't be enough in words. Time will be the only thing that heals these wounds (or 20 silver) combined with actions that speak louder than any word I could type in this thread. Let's move on and I'll make sure I use better judgement in the future when interacting with players ingame.

Thanks,
Secrets

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gurtuk
Game Master
Posts: 147

Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#25 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:51 am

mytreds wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:11 am
Omegus wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:00 am
mytreds wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 pm
Funny when GMs who play destro abuse their powers and yet not a peep from you folks. Hmmmm

However, the train was in poor taste.
If this is Gorbane, he owned up immediately and apologise for accidently killing the keep lord (had the GM kill macro on his hotbar). Immediate server wide announcement. We all laughed and moved on. It was a PvE siege anyway as order were in another zone and destro was already killing the lord in Kadrin Valley.
Oh, well then I guess you can laugh this episode off too then eh?

Didn’t know PvE had sieges btw.
Oh yeah i remember that, A human error. I have macros for some of my GM commands and one of them was a big ol kill command. It was around 2 in the morning and i was lagging really hard, LUCKILY the lord was at about 40% and about 0 order were in the zone. But yeah thats definitely my biggest oopsie.
gorbane - choppa

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gurtuk
Game Master
Posts: 147

Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#26 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:59 am

Sarnai wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:51 am
Omegus wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:00 am
mytreds wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 pm
Funny when GMs who play destro abuse their powers and yet not a peep from you folks. Hmmmm

However, the train was in poor taste.
If this is Gorbane, he owned up immediately and apologise for accidently killing the keep lord (had the GM kill macro on his hotbar). Immediate server wide announcement. We all laughed and moved on. It was a PvE siege anyway as order were in another zone and destro was already killing the lord in Kadrin Valley.
This is just downright disingenous. Order was finishing up Fell Landing and were going to make it in time to jump to KV and stop the destro seige but 'oops I accidentally killed the lord'. Right. Nothing to do with fast-tracking Stonewatch before Order could get there. Destro has gotten 5-star keeps locked while Order is told '5 star is broken, go take the destro keep.' I've seen GM Vanishes used to avoid dying. It's a private server and their rules are their own so whatever, but don't pretend like they don't pull ****.
Also to reply to this, the whole thing was streamed when it happened and the keep lord in Kadrin Valley was around 35-40% when I did accidentally kill the lord. It would have taken us about 1 more minute to finish him off. Then in the dwarf fort we rolled over the order and got a 5 star altdorf. Don't make it seem like GM's/staff abuse their powers left and right we don't. If you aren't aware everything we do is logged and watched over carefully. Its very rare for us to make mistakes like that. Speaking for myself if i'm not doing GM related things i am just a regular player, I make sure to let anyone in my warband i play with know that too. No special treatment.
gorbane - choppa

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Secrets
Developer
Posts: 207

Re: Meleetrain during reikland siege

Post#27 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 am

I don't wanna be that guy, Gorbane, but you can reply to locked threads now because you're a GM and they can't reply to you.

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