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Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

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normanis
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Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#21 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:14 pm

Xirucio wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:51 pm The Which Elf ''fraternity'' is bigger than expected.
The level of extant to which one defend such an asymmetry, where one class can be a tank and a Dps at the same time, just so they can convince themselves of a false level of ''skill in the game'' is indeed mind baffling.
their def gear is same level as tank gear, atherwise u need spend 8-15% for anticrit so u can use tham in tougness and some athe rr training. gear is too good. (its should be 10% tobe crit overall not 16%)
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#22 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:18 pm

normanis wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:14 pm their def gear is same level as tank gear, atherwise u need spend 8-15% for anticrit so u can use tham in tougness and some athe rr training. gear is too good. (its should be 10% tobe crit overall not 16%)
Their def gear has basically no offensive stats as a dps class. You don't know what high dmg is, when you think they deal relevant dmg. They give up a significant amount of dmg to outlast you in a 1vs1. Those 1vsX videos are fun to watch but show only one thing, people who should play t1 instead of t4.
Imagine being a SW and moving back and forth right in front of a WE fighting someone else or a BW starting to bomb instead of kiting and the WE doesn't even have to stealth.
Dying is no option.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 838

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#23 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:48 pm

sharpblader wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:49 pm
Sinisterror wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:27 pm
knick wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:12 pm
in exchange of what? your proposal is a buff to a already top class wich received many good things. Your cherry picking stuff to create your own fantasy op class.
Am i understanding this right? He is saying to revert what TORQUEMADRA did back to original which would be nerf from 150% to 100% of dmg done. That would probably be enough tbh. Maybe BB/BE tactics to 33% Armour ignore instead of 50%.

Reduction of armour pen from 50% to 33% will adversely effect WE Carnage builds which are not used by Def WEs. I remember discussing about balance changes with you briefly in a separate post but we need to be able to make changes so that we can tone down WE/WH Def builds with minimal impact to regular DPS builds. I still believe we need to look at Flowing Accusations and Undefendable Dagger throws.
I think it's worth a try to reduce to 33% because all WE's who are not even trying to get wpn skill have 30% armour penetration with PA buff minimum so it would still be 66% Ignore. I play carnage WE because i just dont feel the witchbrew build, im missing vanish and HD as well but doing 1600 slice crits with tob + BB + 50% crit dmg tactic, with flanking and sove 15 % slice would probably get 2k slice crits. Ruthless assault does 1k crits are pretty normal. Also 30 feet range KD + stealth opener is so amazing and the fast dmg of carnage even without hd/wb/vanish.

Dont touch FA imo but i dont think daggers are undefendable but if you mean that WB procs shouldnt proc from daggers or missed daggers i agree 100%. I would like to see 30feet ranged AA every time you do dagger throw, but increase time to 1,5 second cast. That would make more sense to me that if either class has ranged things its wh because pistol : D New Burn Armour for WH is very nice as well. It has nice range and you can easily hit stealthed enemy with it if you see them before they stealth, so you have 2 accusations instantly and no target needed. Both Pounce and new BA are great.

I would love tactic that makes BAL 6 second instead of 9 and 7 sec CD, last tick is aoe + Fervor is aoe and ignores resistances. If Slice/RS adds accusation even when parried/blocked it should be fixed. And 0,5 sec ICD should be max and basing them on STR would be interesting and making WB etc able to crit but not take crit dmg modifiers in to account, could be tried and reversed if its not good.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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sharpblader
Posts: 298

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#24 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:36 pm

[*]
Spoiler:
Sinisterror wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:48 pm
sharpblader wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:49 pm
Sinisterror wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:27 pm

Am i understanding this right? He is saying to revert what TORQUEMADRA did back to original which would be nerf from 150% to 100% of dmg done. That would probably be enough tbh. Maybe BB/BE tactics to 33% Armour ignore instead of 50%.

Reduction of armour pen from 50% to 33% will adversely effect WE Carnage builds which are not used by Def WEs. I remember discussing about balance changes with you briefly in a separate post but we need to be able to make changes so that we can tone down WE/WH Def builds with minimal impact to regular DPS builds. I still believe we need to look at Flowing Accusations and Undefendable Dagger throws.
I think it's worth a try to reduce to 33% because all WE's who are not even trying to get wpn skill have 30% armour penetration with PA buff minimum so it would still be 66% Ignore. I play carnage WE because i just dont feel the witchbrew build, im missing vanish and HD as well but doing 1600 slice crits with tob + BB + 50% crit dmg tactic, with flanking and sove 15 % slice would probably get 2k slice crits. Ruthless assault does 1k crits are pretty normal. Also 30 feet range KD + stealth opener is so amazing and the fast dmg of carnage even without hd/wb/vanish.

Dont touch FA imo but i dont think daggers are undefendable but if you mean that WB procs shouldnt proc from daggers or missed daggers i agree 100%. I would like to see 30feet ranged AA every time you do dagger throw, but increase time to 1,5 second cast. That would make more sense to me that if either class has ranged things its wh because pistol : D New Burn Armour for WH is very nice as well. It has nice range and you can easily hit stealthed enemy with it if you see them before they stealth, so you have 2 accusations instantly and no target needed. Both Pounce and new BA are great.

I would love tactic that makes BAL 6 second instead of 9 and 7 sec CD, last tick is aoe + Fervor is aoe and ignores resistances. If Slice/RS adds accusation even when parried/blocked it should be fixed. And 0,5 sec ICD should be max and basing them on STR would be interesting and making WB etc able to crit but not take crit dmg modifiers in to account, could be tried and reversed if its not good.
Yes, I meant the proc which happens irrespective of it being defended, sorry English is not my first language. Same goes for bullets which does the same.

I stress on FA because theoretically, if the RNG gods smile on you, you can get a proc every GCD which keeps up armor pen and heals 300-600 hp every 1. something second, while giving you the ability to kite. Another way to tone it down would be to prevent FA from proccing if the finisher was used with less than two accusations.

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Xirucio
Posts: 121

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#25 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:20 pm

Sulorie wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:02 pm
Xirucio wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:51 pm The Which Elf ''fraternity'' is bigger than expected.
The level of extant to which one defend such an asymmetry, where one class can be a tank and a Dps at the same time, just so they can convince themselves of a false level of ''skill in the game'' is indeed mind baffling.
When you kill someone else with your 2h wp, it's fair game and all balanced?
Yes, because in order to do that DPS, i have to get squishy, so i invest STR at the expense of defensive stats.
That's the bargain that Def WE's don't have to do.
I mean, you have 5k posts, but logical consistency is nowhere near your ''aim''.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#26 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:50 pm

Xirucio wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:20 pm
Sulorie wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:02 pm
Xirucio wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:51 pm The Which Elf ''fraternity'' is bigger than expected.
The level of extant to which one defend such an asymmetry, where one class can be a tank and a Dps at the same time, just so they can convince themselves of a false level of ''skill in the game'' is indeed mind baffling.
When you kill someone else with your 2h wp, it's fair game and all balanced?
Yes, because in order to do that DPS, i have to get squishy, so i invest STR at the expense of defensive stats.
That's the bargain that Def WE's don't have to do.
I mean, you have 5k posts, but logical consistency is nowhere near your ''aim''.
Your healing is a lot stronger, no? Your armor is a a lot higher, no? Try a more defensive approach as well, you always have to balance between off and deff.
Dying is no option.

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inoeth
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Posts: 513

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#27 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:48 am

WH and squishy lmao

rly

stop this nonesense!

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#28 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:50 pm

Sulorie wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:18 pm
normanis wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:14 pm their def gear is same level as tank gear, atherwise u need spend 8-15% for anticrit so u can use tham in tougness and some athe rr training. gear is too good. (its should be 10% tobe crit overall not 16%)
Their def gear has basically no offensive stats as a dps class. You don't know what high dmg is, when you think they deal relevant dmg. They give up a significant amount of dmg to outlast you in a 1vs1. Those 1vsX videos are fun to watch but show only one thing, people who should play t1 instead of t4.
Imagine being a SW and moving back and forth right in front of a WE fighting someone else or a BW starting to bomb instead of kiting and the WE doesn't even have to stealth.
ok i will put 16% anti crit in rr points how much u can save. 30rr points u save for ather stuff like wounds/tough boost 120 wounds - 34rr points. full parry 20rr points and 10 points u have free left. so much u can do with free 30 rr points.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#29 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:53 pm

Xirucio wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:20 pm
Sulorie wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:02 pm
Xirucio wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:51 pm The Which Elf ''fraternity'' is bigger than expected.
The level of extant to which one defend such an asymmetry, where one class can be a tank and a Dps at the same time, just so they can convince themselves of a false level of ''skill in the game'' is indeed mind baffling.
When you kill someone else with your 2h wp, it's fair game and all balanced?
Yes, because in order to do that DPS, i have to get squishy, so i invest STR at the expense of defensive stats.
That's the bargain that Def WE's don't have to do.
I mean, you have 5k posts, but logical consistency is nowhere near your ''aim''.
he is elf , byt previous was changed by well of eternity.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Insolence | Witch Elf roaming / duels video

Post#30 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:30 pm

normanis wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:50 pm
Sulorie wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:18 pm
normanis wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:14 pm their def gear is same level as tank gear, atherwise u need spend 8-15% for anticrit so u can use tham in tougness and some athe rr training. gear is too good. (its should be 10% tobe crit overall not 16%)
Their def gear has basically no offensive stats as a dps class. You don't know what high dmg is, when you think they deal relevant dmg. They give up a significant amount of dmg to outlast you in a 1vs1. Those 1vsX videos are fun to watch but show only one thing, people who should play t1 instead of t4.
Imagine being a SW and moving back and forth right in front of a WE fighting someone else or a BW starting to bomb instead of kiting and the WE doesn't even have to stealth.
ok i will put 16% anti crit in rr points how much u can save. 30rr points u save for ather stuff like wounds/tough boost 120 wounds - 34rr points. full parry 20rr points and 10 points u have free left. so much u can do with free 30 rr points.
You save a lot more rr points, if you take off set, as crit costs more than -crit, if you want to argue about rr point savings.

I probably fail to understand your calculations but it doesn't add up, if it costs you 30+34+20 and you still have 10 spare points.

Those 30 points are not free, it's a trade off for other stats you have to skip by taking def set.
Imagine saving virtually over 45 mastery points for crit by combining set pieces.
Dying is no option.

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