[Black Orc] Talk bout da builds ere.

[rmpl]

What nerf?

Switching Down Ya Go from 10 point back to 14 and giving it additional Chop Fasta.

Was this supposed to be a nerf or just a change that, apparently, no one asked for?

I'm asking because if it wasn't a nerf then perhaps we could bring it back with a balance suggestion, however if it's a deliberate nerf then I wouldn't go against it.

[Penril]

You do realize DYG was at 14 points for several years on live? It got moved to 10 points here for... reasons. But since it got a WW effect now, it got moved back to 14 points (it also got moved because we consider CHM horrible for a 14 points skill). So however you look at it, both RoR versions of DYG (at 10 points, or at 14 points with WW) are better than what it was on live. Far from being a "nerf".

So no, I probably would not move a balance suggestion to bring back the old version. I would, however, consider the following proposals:

- Buff Chop Fasta, change it into xxxxx
- Let X skill be affected by Chop Fasta again (both BO and Choppa versions ofc)

[ragafury]

you can run both. CHM and THC together with the crit tactic from left tree. you need RR 70 though. I ran it in RvR today as offtank. it helps alot with cleansing as an example and counters bomb SL in your smallscale party.
also like stated: purging targets. and much more.

da meme spec

it's a buff to BO overall. was both changed in the same patch or first BB and DYG+CF! one patch later.
big brawling gets 10 sec CD. DYG moves and gets downgraded WW effect.
there was 0 reason to go for CHM / toughest tree. the roi wasn't that good even CHM has a lot of utility and situational power.
a 3 sec CD doesn't do that much in RvR compared to mass snare, so nobody picked it up.
same for smallscale scene.
Big Brawlin was disgustingly OP like knight snare is still. low in tree to reach, high roi, easy to use.

the loser of that all is Choppa.
there is almost no reason to give him a bombspot anymore with the CF! "nerf" cause the rest of his AOE tree is trash and the DPS synergy with sorc is gone. so he was pushed out of the warband "meta". basically needs a whole tree rework now.

[Arteker616]

What nerf?

technically was a nerf of the best burst rotation the black ork had at that momment.

idk why the chop fasta was added at all at the cost to destroy the choppa wb utility but idk. dyg was one of the few efective cc tools had untill the nerf of the aoe snare tactic in boss, tied the effect to a skill u want to keep to add cc in a proper organized fight was kinda lol and hillarious , so now u have to choose either use it to buff party whenever u have it and lose a kd or save it for cc purpose.

was terrible and stupid change on the ability in my personal opinion but well, was expected a supposed buff would end in another nerf just in this case it killed outrigtgh a whole class utility in wb .

[DokB]

I think I read that they wanted a WW mirror on the BO to give him more utility or something along those lines.

IMO it would have made more sense to put the Chop Fasta effect on Waaagh(!) and scrap the Red Frenzy buff altogether, keep DYG at 9 points and look at ways to improve CHM (muh 60% self-snare) or find a way to drop it further down the tree without making it too accessible for all specs.

I don’t have huge experience in coordinated WB play but was the nerf to Chopa Fast/Sorc Bombing utility justified in your opinions?

[Nefarian78]

You do realize DYG was at 14 points for several years on live? It got moved to 10 points here for... reasons. But since it got a WW effect now, it got moved back to 14 points (it also got moved because we consider CHM horrible for a 14 points skill). So however you look at it, both RoR versions of DYG (at 10 points, or at 14 points with WW) are better than what it was on live. Far from being a "nerf".

So no, I probably would not move a balance suggestion to bring back the old version. I would, however, consider the following proposals:

- Buff Chop Fasta, change it into xxxxx
- Let X skill be affected by Chop Fasta again (both BO and Choppa versions ofc)

Moving DYG to 14 broke 2h BOs burst combo, making the spec even weaker than it was before. a DYG followed by a taunt + THC was something to be scared of and the only strenght 2h BOs had (after Big Brawlin' nerf) and now it's gone. In my experience the new DYG isn't being used that much. If you want Chop Fasta, you bring a Choppa, not a BO.

So yes, even if it wasn't intended it was a nerf. At least for 2h BOs and WB choppa.

I'd even make a proposal for it to be changed to something else, but the last 2 proposals i made seems like they were forgotten or are still being reviewed by the team =/

[TenTonHammer]

basically needs a whole tree rework now.

Not just wrecka

Tired already, no more helpin and keep on choppin need to be addressed, the former 2 just like CF! are both usurped by destro alternatives and are non viable

the latter ability is a joke that no choppa needs

i want to make proposals

but i have no ideas for alternatives

IMO it would have made more sense to put the Chop Fasta effect on Waaagh(!) and scrap the Red Frenzy buff altogether, keep DYG at 9 points and look at ways to improve CHM (muh 60% self-snare) or find a way to drop it further down the tree without making it too accessible for all specs.

I don’t have huge experience in coordinated WB play but was the nerf to Chopa Fast/Sorc Bombing utility justified in your opinions?

WAAAGH! has a very low CDas is, and in turn would result in an extreamly high uptime for CF! buff and WAAAGH! was already good for AoE dmg potential + was a higher corp debuff than provided by chosen for sorcs

red frenzy was also unnecessary tbt as if you take WAAAGH! you not using it to buff melee but rather fro bombing so red frenzy isnt really needed and once again it walks in on choppas grp AA buff


CF! with sorc bombing was strong....to the extent that it got nerfed to the stupid 2m CD on live after order QQ, organized warbands have/want/need very few choppas, the only potential they bring is CF!

their AoE potential is inferior to maras and unlike WE/Mara they dont have any AoE moral bomb

They are undesirable for WB play now

If yall want my honest opions i feel that both the red fenzy WAAAGH! buff and the cd addon to DYG were unecessary additons, bells and wistles that didnt need to be put on and like some one else noted 2H bo is even more mediocre now

DYG should be moved back to 9 and either YMM made stronger some how and moved to 14 or CHM buffed and moved to 14

[DokB]

Then perhaps an increase on the CD for Waagh so they can’t run a +100% uptime CF? I don’t even really like going Waaagh nowadays anyway since it only benefits dps zealots (lol), Sorcs and your own damage from skullthumper/loudmouth/additional waaaghs.

And if I want to do AoE damage then I just wait for m2/m3 anyway since the corp debuff is 20 seconds and there isn’t a huge need to spam it every rotation. And while the corp debuff is the highest (I think) in the game, it isn’t anything compared to the double/triple resists debuff that Order have benefited from for so long. Funnily enough they won’t be enjoying it for too much longer I guess.

It just seems odd to me that would give CF to the BO but put it on a skill that is in the solo orientated tree. I understand however that it is hard to choose a 14 point skill for the BO to tie a whispering winds mirror to.

I think with the recent change to Big Brawlin’ and DYG being moved up the tree, it places non 70rr BO in a hard place on how to spec effectively and still provide appropriate CC but without gimping yourself in the dps/stat steal department.

edit:

i feel that both the red fenzy WAAAGH! buff and the cd addon to DYG were unecessary additons, bells and wistles that didnt need to be put on and like some one else noted 2H bo is even more mediocre now

I also feel this way. 2H BO will always be mediocre in my eyes as long as the BO lacks an avoidance buff which isn't a tactic (something along the lines of SM Eagles Flight).

[ragafury]

Cf is used in it's current Form and exclusively by us via BOs, not choppas. It's basically a shatter limbs counter and mostly making healers life easier.

Nobody wants a choppa in his warband, in terms of bombing. They are witch elve / BG tier.

Also dps zealot (lol) is a thing in wb gameplay. It's very good and brings much fight control and a dps increase. Also if he has good gear he profits from cf enormous.

Waaaagh + CHM + Dyg is atm the to go specc for organized wbs imo. Dmg, survivability, support. aoe spec

Yep, 2hd BO suffered by this change same as low-level snb bo. But low level snb is viable. BG as a tank and choppa as a dps is straight not viable for warbands. BO is.

[michela89]

after reaching 29 with the BO, I went all in with Brawler up to THC... daaaaamn I didn't expect it at all to be this nice.



actually running defensive tactics (10% block / thoughness).

it kinda makes me want to go full glass cannon for the lulz with crit dmg/focused offense, have a bit of fun in midtier scenarios while it last, before becoming the ultimate gimp in t4 sc.