[Black Orc] Talk bout da builds ere.

[Collateral]

I think I posted my max parry build here already so I don't know what we are discussing hahah. I was able to get to 84%. But the amount of things you sacrifice to get there is insane and makes it completely not worth it. With block tactic I sit at 30% block with max rr. That's not really high levels of block if you ask me.

[Penril]

Oh I reached that amount of parry (like 60%, which is not that bad) without sacrificing a damn thing.

[Penril]

But anyway: BO is a SnB tank. Always has been.

[Collateral]

Yes I agree, BO is a snb tank in essence, just like SM is a 2h tank. I'm not sure if you don't sacrifice a lot to get to 60% parry. That's quite a lot for a BO. You could share with us your build, but I think you can't do it without all the parry rings, which is sacrificing a lot already imo. The most base parry I was able to get was 54% or smth like that, with parry rings and all that (you also rely on procs from Bane, but you could say it's almost 100% uptime). I didn't spent a lot of time trying out 2h builds cuz I'm just not interested in 2h. Yea it looks cool and all, but it will always be snb for me.

[ragafury]

I'm at 44. and that's not a max parry build, it's a dps build while maintaining reasonable stats for guarding.

Overlord
BL
3pc Dom
Subju wep
3 pcs genesis (warrior, so 2/2/2 dodge, disrupt, parry)

that's not a max parry build.
can swap the subju wep for epicq wep.
can swap the rings for skave, strife torment,...
but why than even bother, can just take the subju 1hd and get my block back while dropping the greatweapon tactic and take something more dpssy.

oh and short edit:
you lose than 10% move speed, str, genesis set boni.
so I would lose quite a lot on the offensive part.

[Rathael87]

Gud wif shield.
Gud at big choppin
Less stabbin me

BO can get pretty high levels of block. As for parry, I can get close to 60% on mine.

I'm currently on 37.3 block and 33.1 parry in best plan. Still waiting on conq. set bonus and conq. boots which have 1% more block than my current ones. That's going to be 43.3% base chance to block in best plan. It's not 80% parry, but it's almost 50% chance to block all sources of damage from the front. I know that's only in best plan, but you can have high best plan uptime with good use of changing da plan.

With CHM up, that shoots up to 93.3% chance to block... 6.7% chance to do any damage to a black orc from the front is crazy. I mean yeah we're slowed and can't do anything meanwhile, but I love being that immortal when holding a choke point in a shield-wall in oRvR. I can often stall my death by several seconds using it, which gives the healers a lot of time... and every single hit blocked in this way is a hit that would have not been blocked by an ally (assuming you're playing smart and not giving RDPS hits they otherwise would not be able to get).

The snare does feel a tiny bit unnecessary, when all the other forms of channelled evasion do not have it, including HTL. It would be nice to at least backpeddle at full speed while blocking. Safe retreat is impossible with CHM.

What sort of wounds are you guys running as SnB tanks? I saw someone say in chat a couple of weeks ago that staying above 900 wounds is good. This makes me want to try to fit Im da biggest, since I'm somewhere between 700 and 800 without it... but then again with that much block, im not sure its necessary. I can run da tuffest bellow when needed. I know the bellow has been slated, but I find it useful for giving healers a little bit less to heal. If i can largely self sustain with tuffest, it's almost as if my guard is just giving someone a flat 50% damage reduction.

[Collateral]

It's not 6.7% chance to be hit. You're forgetting to take into account the enemy str, block strikethrough etc., unless it doesn't apply to abilities, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Imo LSM is not worth it, just a waste of tactic slot. There are better tactics to use for RvR.

My wounds for rvr are 10k. That should be your base. With full conq you get to 11k, which is nice. Wounds are very necessary in rvr for negating morale damage. In fact hey are the only counter to morale damage since it's undefendable. Getting over 9k is a must for tanks. It sounds to me that you're not running wounds tactic, and you really should. It's not hard for BOs to stack wounds that way. Don't use da toughest, like ever. It just makes no difference. Da biggest is the best bellow in pretty much every scenario. The maximum amount of wounds increased is 42 I think. That is nothing when you compare it to stat steal, even when only stealing 75 stats with base bellow.

[Rathael87]

Thanks for the guidance on wounds. I had no idea how crazy high wounds gets in conq. gear. I've only picked up one piece so far. I may start running the wounds tactic.

As for bellows, I actually largely stay in da greenest. I always feel it's a necessity to slow down the incoming damage to help our healers out a bit. With da greenest up and spamming SMH, that cuts wizard damage by quite a lot. It also helps me stop my guard target from getting bursted so hard. I can understand using da biggest over da tuffest, but can da greenest at least compete with da biggest somewhat?

You're quite right about block reduction. Attacker's main stats are factored in. I did a little number crunching with these factored in based on a formula i found in this thread below but the numbers were higher than i expected:

https://returnofreckoning.com/forum/vie ... 15&t=13756

From this post

%chance to block = ((block_rating / attacker_main_stat) * 0.2) + modifiers {anything that gives block chance such as abilities/tactics}.

The tooltip on the character sheet is your chance to block in PvE. Your chance to block in RvR is different per target because of the formula above.

This implies all additive gains to block chance from tactics or abilities are unaffected. Assuming this includes Defender (10%), That leaves a minimum of 88% block: 50% from CHM, 10% from LSM tactic in best plan, 10% from GWS tactic, 10% from defender, 3% from conq boots and 5% from conq. set bonus.

Assuming some hypothetical numers... 1k str (not really sure how much MDPS tend to have in their main stat. Apparently the soft cap is 1050?) and 400 blockrate (read something about a 417 blockrate shield in that thread so i went a little lower for easy numbers)...

(400/1000)*0.2 = 0.08 or 8% block...

bringing us up to a total of 96% with the other goodies.I have no idea why that's higher than my previous estimation other than a slightly better block rate shield. My current shield only has 370 block rate so its probably that. Better shield giving even more block. I'm guessing also the comment about character sheet block being PvE specifically is relevant there.

Naturally that's all just theory, math and a few forum posts i picked out. Not sure if everything I did there was sound or if the formulae were strictly correct... but there's also the secondary defense stat to consider. If an MDPS manages to punch through that block chance, he still has parry to get past. Assuming he hypothetically negates all Weapon skill bonus parry with his main stat, that leaves minimum 10% from the LSM tactic. Given that he has a 4% chance to bypass the block, that leaves him with, at most, a 3.6% chance to bypass both block and parry together, assuming the Borc is getting no extra parry from WS or any other sources.

I am seriously looking forward to the conq. set bonus. Even without CHM, the block chance in that hypothetical situation is 46%.

[Collateral]

I absolutely recommend to run the wounds tactic in RvR, especially if you're running in warbands. Remove LSM and run wounds. I'm not in full conq atm like I said, but yes it's a very nice set for tanking. The proc will be up pretty much all the time in zergy fights since there will be so many hits flying around.

If you really want super high block, you always have the M2. Go with morale pump tactic and you will see how fast you get to M2. I ran that sort of build for some soloing and it wasn't bad, really helps when fighting multiple opponents. But again, your chance to be hit won't be 0% because the formula you showed. It would be a little ridiculous if you could be immortal for 10 seconds (that doesn't hold true if you're fighting WHs though, keep that in mind ).

[Rathael87]

Yeah that's a good bit of advice. I actually did spot Penril's post about it just last night while going through the greenskin forums. I've actually been running shield wall anyway, since there aren't really any other "I'm almost immortal" choices. The rest of them are less powerful individually but affect the group. I usually try to build morale as high as possible, but if I'm going to bite the dust I'll pop shield wall (since i'd lose the morale upon death regardless).

I've not really tried taking the T4 morales yet. The one at the end of da tuffest tree looks tasty, but I always feel like I can never reach T4. There's that and the fact that the base T4 morale is pretty damn powerful anyway. I might pick up the morale from da tuffest and try it out with a morale pump block build.