[Black Orc] Talk bout da builds ere.

[Dreadspectre]

You can't stack the toughness stat steal from bellow and the toughness debuff from tactic?

[Penril]

You should be able to in theory. Haven't tested it.

[Collateral]

If it stacks than I might consider it as well, 200+ toughness debuff + 800+ armour debuff seems like a huge potential for only one ability.

[Penril]

Ehhh I don't know... Who are your main targets anyway? DPS and Healers. How much toughness do they have? Unless they are rocking 500+ toughness then you don't really need to waste a tactic to debuff them for 200ish.

[Collateral]

Well consider that kotbs is a staple in pretty much every group, and I'm pretty sure the toughness aura is a must for them just like for chosen. So with this 'double' toughness debuff you will remove the aura and still debuff that small amount they might have.

[Penril]

Good point. You would need a tactic-based Toughness debuff to actually lower their toughness (cause skill-based debuffs don't stack, so it only considers the highest one which is used to negate the KotBS/SM toughness buff).

The point remains though.. Who are your main targets? How much Toughness does a Slayer have? A SW? A BW? Is it high enough that you need to stack 2 toughness debuffs (and waste a tactic slot on the BO)?

[Collateral]

I'm not super experienced in dps classes but afaik their toughness is not more than 300 if they really focus on dealing dmg. So debuffing them by even 100 could seriously hurt them (if you stack with the tactic and take into account kotbs aura). And yes the main targets are BWs and slayers ofc. I'm not sure how Wls fare with toughness.

[Penril]

300 seems high. Maybe for Mara/WL. I know Slayers/Choppas can have under 100, same with SH (not sure about SW, can't remember).

[Dreadspectre]

My buddy has a Choppa and runs Hurtin Time or whatever, lowers his toughness to like 75 atm lol.

Obviously this is the extreme glass cannon approach but if he wasn't using it he'd only be at about 200ish toughness right now.

[Collateral]

Oh lol then I really have no idea about dps classes xD If that's the case then double debuff will be a huge deal I believe. Will have to give it a try.