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[SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Black Orc, Squig Herder, Choppa, Shaman

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teiloh
Posts: 287

[SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Post#1 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:54 am

Hi, the Squig Herder even on live (before getting tons of buffs) was an excellent class. I can understand that there was a push to "mirror" the classes between WL and SH, but the WL's mirror is probably more precisely the Marauder, which has its own considerable advantages over a WL particularly in a WB setting.

Arguments:

1) In something of a perverse way the SH benefits much more from Squig Leap than a WL does Pounce, especially in a Warband setting. Squig Herders have reason to pop in and out of an enemy blob as their role is that of a disrupter, especially since they were given a CD increaser on Indigestion (originally, this was on Bad Gas, if I'm not mistaken - with a 30s cooldown. Still an excellent ability). This has the effect of making Destruction far better in CD increasers (where Order used to be superior thanks to Shatter Limbs), especially when you include the CD increasers on Choppa and Black Orcs. Indigestion's frontal cone is also superior to 30 AOE considering how hard it is for Slayers to get deep into backlines; SH can very easy catch tons of support and healers.

2) Destro already gained a huge benefit from having what is essentially a third AOE DPS (vs Order's Slayer and WL), prior to the tons of SH buffs that went in. The Squig Armor class ability essentially gives Squig Herders an entire secondary class to choose from, with no answer in either the WL or SW, its mirrors. The ASW being an OK single target MDPS does little to benefit Order. mSH is simply overloaded. Even before the buffs, mSH was extremely powerful and I very handily topped damage and DPS charts in cities even when running mSH as a joke. RUN AWAY + Bad Gas + BB was insanely disruptive.

3) If it's an issue that the WL had a unique ability, it must be said that Run Away! (ability not tactic) was probably Destro's answer to Pounce - the AOE detaunt lasts for 10s no matter how much damage is done to the Squig, and while I was playing my RR70 Squig (on live) it stacked with detaunts, possibly bringing damage down to 1. The Gobbo RUN AWAY! tactic already makes the SH a supreme mobility/escape character. Squig Leap is overkill.

In summary, Squig Leap makes the SH too mobile, too disruptive and too flexible - on a class that was already extremely strong. And it makes Destro warbands a bit too AOE heavy.

EDIT: Wrong forum
Last edited by teiloh on Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Onemantankwall
Posts: 488

Re: [SH] Consider removing Squig Leap

Post#2 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:59 am

"squig pounced me while i was trying to run away on my order toon whose side has 3 types of pounces/gapclosers please nerf"


fixed for you.
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teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: [SH] Consider removing Squig Leap

Post#3 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:03 am

Onemantankwall wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:59 am
"squig pounced me while i was trying to run away on my order toon whose side has 3 types of pounces/gapclosers please nerf"


fixed for you.
Oh no, the SM morale, what ever will you do? Maybe use one of the 12+ Destro pulls or mobility deniers?

And I hope you're not actually talking about the aSW capstone ability. Once SW get Big Bouncing and a CD increaser, we can talk about removing that as well.

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Sengirv
Posts: 32

Re: [SH] Consider removing Squig Leap

Post#4 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:04 am

Yes... but the Rdps class spec (though 1 of 2 trees for Rdps) is almost absolute. An argument could be made...but not a convincing one. I feel squig leap is the resolve for that tree. I think most SHs would say get rid of Squig leap if the buffed or remade that tree. As of now its 1tree for 1skill.
Last edited by Sengirv on Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: [SH] Consider removing Squig Leap

Post#5 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:06 am

BB, Indigestion are both amazing in Warbands, the rest are good single target damage and control.

Sofong
Posts: 124

Re: [SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Post#6 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:53 am

hahaha..... so order will have 2 teleport wl and sw and destro have 0 sounds 100% perfectly balanced as always

teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: [SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Post#7 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:13 am

Kinda like how Destro has spammable outgoing heal debuffs and order 0

Destro has 3 CD increasers order 1

Order has 0 50% pet AOE taunt while Destro has 1

ETC
Last edited by teiloh on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CoffeeForAll
Posts: 57

Re: [SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Post#8 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:21 am

It's been a long time since I tested the pet related tactics, but i'm almost 100% sure that the pet/turret taunt doesn't work on other players.

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Manatikik
Posts: 1174

Re: [SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Post#9 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:36 am

Only change it needs is to always have a CD regardless of TA (same without WL and Loner); no class should ever have that much mobility in that it has a 0 cd pounce. Besides that it’s relatively balanced on MSH.
<Montague><Capulet>

teiloh
Posts: 287

Re: [SH] Consider replacing Squig Leap

Post#10 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:51 am

CoffeeForAll wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:21 am
It's been a long time since I tested the pet related tactics, but i'm almost 100% sure that the pet/turret taunt doesn't work on other players.
Run Away! Causes a taunt/challenge that affects all outgoing damage for everyone, and it stacks with pretty much everything. Unless it changed.

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