[CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

[Ysaran]

But Choppa dosn't fit the needs of Destruction. Destruction doesn't need a pull, doesn't need Chop Fasta and also doesn't need Keep On Choppin'.

I guess you are quite alone with this opinion.

Maybe. But I don't think Choppa is in a good position right now. Choppa wasn't overperforming but still got nerfed. We are used to the current meta, but maybe by dropping GTDC, Chop Fasta and Keep On Choppin' we could have a better one.

Either if you think that Choppa is fine or you don't, I would hear you opinion, considering your experience

[Sulorie]

But Choppa dosn't fit the needs of Destruction. Destruction doesn't need a pull, doesn't need Chop Fasta and also doesn't need Keep On Choppin'.

I guess you are quite alone with this opinion.

Maybe. But I don't think Choppa is in a good position right now. Choppa wasn't overperforming but still got nerfed. We are used to the current meta, but maybe by dropping GTDC, Chop Fasta and Keep On Choppin' we could have a better one.

Either if you think that Choppa is fine or you don't, I would hear you opinion, considering your experience

A choppa is a strong asset for any group, because besides damage you bring chop fasta.
This skill alone, which has a quite long buff duration, works perfectly to allow your tanks or healers to shatter a lot enemy buffs in short time or spam aoe cleanse to remove critical debuff. Not to mention shamans will love you, as it allows them to surpass other healers in aoe heals during close quarter warband fights e.g. city siege.
Black orc brings the same but it gives you options to run other grp setups.

Gtdc is a hate skill for the most part but this comes because choppas use it wrong, e.g. giving immunity to targets your tanks want to punt.
It's range got increased but it became avoidable, where you see the nerf? Since when you focus high parry targets or shield tanks to begin with? Since when you use it in order to deal aoe dmg, when lotsa choppin spam nets more damage to all important targets? Use tactic to increase targets to 24 max and you will still deal more dmg per target, despite the dmg malus of the tactic. Gtdc hits only once every 2 sec, this means less proc chances as well.

Keep On Choppin' on the other hand is trash, no further questions asked.
This is the only skill for aoe spec choppa, which should be either improved or changed to something more useful.

2h choppa is a different story but there I see the a lack of tactic slots as the biggest problem, not the available skills itself. As one exhaust related tactic is mandatory, you lose out on damage tactics, while ST damage is supposed to be the key advantage over dual wield.

[Ysaran]

A choppa is a strong asset for any group, because besides damage you bring chop fasta.
This skill alone, which has a quite long buff duration, works perfectly to allow your tanks or healers to shatter a lot enemy buffs in short time or spam aoe cleanse to remove critical debuff. Not to mention shamans will love you, as it allows them to surpass other healers in aoe heals during close quarter warband fights e.g. city siege.
Black orc brings the same but it gives you options to run other grp setups.

And don't forget it let you spam Wild Choppin'! But beside, there are also other aspects to consider. For example heal Shaman is already better than AM due to Do Somefin Useful>Funnel Essence, Shaman doesn't need to be able to spam FODG more than AM (but on this matter I think you know more than me). WAAAAAAAGH! is already better than Whispering Wind since the first doesn't need a traget (even thought it requires a tactic). Order tank do just fine even without spam-shattering.
What I'm saying is that Chop Fasta is strong but it's not unique and not indispensable. On the other side the whole slayer is unique and indispensable: there are no other Rampage in game, there are no other Shatter Limbs on Order and it also deal a shitton of damage. Could you say the same of Choppa?

Gtdc is a hate skill for the most part but this comes because choppas use it wrong, e.g. giving immunity to targets your tanks want to punt.
It's range got increased but it became avoidable, where you see the nerf? Since when you focus high parry targets or shield tanks to begin with? Since when you use it in order to deal aoe dmg, when lotsa choppin spam nets more damage to all important targets? Use tactic to increase targets to 24 max and you will still deal more dmg per target, despite the dmg malus of the tactic. Gtdc hits only once every 2 sec, this means less proc chances as well.

They also took away the extra tick on interrupt, and that's a nerf. There are no other way to see it.
I agree that most Choppas use GTDC in the wrong way but not only because of immunity. Before nerf you could have done a damge spike by using Chop Fasta+GTDC+jump+Wild Choppin'-spam (3gdc). But now you can't. Before nerf GTDC WAS a damage ability, but now it isn't. No more. Before nerf you could have used GTDC to get stealthed WH, but now most of them parry your pull.
Before the nerf Choppa had damage spike and Slayer had sustained damage. Now Choppa has Chop Fasta and nothing more.
Also Lotsa Choppin' doesn't have higher tooltip damage than GTDC, the only two AoE skill that deal more damage than GTDC are Wild Choppin' and Bring It On

Keep On Choppin' on the other hand is trash, no further questions asked.
This is the only skill for aoe spec choppa, which should be either improved or changed to something more useful.

2h choppa is a different story but there I see the a lack of tactic slots as the biggest problem, not the available skills itself. As one exhaust related tactic is mandatory, you lose out on damage tactics, while ST damage is supposed to be the key advantage over dual wield.

On this I totally agree with you.

[farng84]

Gtdc is a hate skill for the most part but this comes because choppas use it wrong, e.g. giving immunity to targets your tanks want to punt.
It's range got increased but it became avoidable, where you see the nerf? Since when you focus high parry targets or shield tanks to begin with? Since when you use it in order to deal aoe dmg, when lotsa choppin spam nets more damage to all important targets? Use tactic to increase targets to 24 max and you will still deal more dmg per target, despite the dmg malus of the tactic. Gtdc hits only once every 2 sec, this means less proc chances as well.

They also took away the extra tick on interrupt, and that's a nerf. There are no other way to see it.
I agree that most Choppas use GTDC in the wrong way but not only because of immunity. Before nerf you could have done a damge spike by using Chop Fasta+GTDC+jump+Wild Choppin'-spam (3gdc). But now you can't. Before nerf GTDC WAS a damage ability, but now it isn't. No more. Before nerf you could have used GTDC to get stealthed WH, but now most of them parry your pull.
Before the nerf Choppa had damage spike and Slayer had sustained damage. Now Choppa has Chop Fasta and nothing more.
Also Lotsa Choppin' doesn't have higher tooltip damage than GTDC, the only two AoE skill that deal more damage than GTDC are Wild Choppin' and Bring It On

I think what she meant is that when you are in front of a crowd spamming lotsa chopping (with 24 target tactic on) can do more dmg compared to gtdc (which is limited to 3 ticks in 6 seconds) as it can be spammed. indeed wild chopping can do more dmg (much more), but it can be spammed only with choppa fasta active and the tactic slotted (so it has more limitations to balance the damage). BTW I don't believe lotsa chopping is a great skill for spam, but it's not too bad either

[Ysaran]

I think what she meant is that when you are in front of a crowd spamming lotsa chopping (with 24 target tactic on) can do more dmg compared to gtdc (which is limited to 3 ticks in 6 seconds) as it can be spammed. indeed wild chopping can do more dmg (much more), but it can be spammed only with choppa fasta active and the tactic slotted (so it has more limitations to balance the damage). BTW I don't believe lotsa chopping is a great skill for spam, but it's not too bad either

That tactic is trash, you will never have 24 ppl in front of you. The 9 ppl cap is fine. if you want to deal some sirius damage/utility as choppa Wot Rules?! is mandatory. Without Wot Rules?! you are playing a maimed class

[farng84]

I think what she meant is that when you are in front of a crowd spamming lotsa chopping (with 24 target tactic on) can do more dmg compared to gtdc (which is limited to 3 ticks in 6 seconds) as it can be spammed. indeed wild chopping can do more dmg (much more), but it can be spammed only with choppa fasta active and the tactic slotted (so it has more limitations to balance the damage). BTW I don't believe lotsa chopping is a great skill for spam, but it's not too bad either

That tactic is trash, you will never have 24 ppl in front of you. The 9 ppl cap is fine. if you want to deal some sirius damage/utility as choppa Wot Rules?! is mandatory. Without Wot Rules?! you are playing a maimed class

I think it is actually 3 targets (or so the description says) if it was 9 it would be fine, at the moment is quite bad. In a few situation having the chance to spam lotsa chopping with larger range and hitting all targets you might have in that range can be useful

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=41270&start=10
At page 2 you can find some option for having your choppa with str capped, ws capped (buff included), over 9k hp and etc. That's a few good options which don't include Wot rules.
You lose something, but it's not a crippling to exclude wot rules

[Sulorie]

Wot rules is not that good for pvp. No effective rage dump possible besides flee, which only drops rage over time. If the enemy team is worse from the get go, only then you don't need to drop rage. Against bad enemy teams you don't need the added damage either.
I tried wild choppin with Wot rules and chop fasta but it felt underwhelming as it seems to have an odd delay after use.

Gtdc does less dmg over it's duration than lotsa choppin spam plus procs but without tactic and 3 targets max you most likely hit 1-2 tanks as well. While 24 hits is overkill, it ensures that everyone you want to hit gets in fact hit. I plan on killing without having to require a double dmg tick on gtdc, so I don't care about the fix.

Chop fasta gives your tanks the tools to remove rampage and your doks to remove ID.
So those strong skills are indeed countered by having a choppa or BO in group.

[Orgruk]

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=41270&start=10
At page 2 you can find some option for having your choppa with str capped, ws capped (buff included), over 9k hp and etc. That's a few good options which don't include Wot rules.

If you skip the Plunda you can go for Easy Killin' tactic, forgot to mention in that post you linked

[farng84]

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=41270&start=10
At page 2 you can find some option for having your choppa with str capped, ws capped (buff included), over 9k hp and etc. That's a few good options which don't include Wot rules.

If you skip the Plunda you can go for Easy Killin' tactic, forgot to mention in that post you linked

And thanks for the gear/tactics suggestion, I was trying some of the combinations and I hit much harder

[Ysaran]

I think what she meant is that when you are in front of a crowd spamming lotsa chopping (with 24 target tactic on) can do more dmg compared to gtdc (which is limited to 3 ticks in 6 seconds) as it can be spammed. indeed wild chopping can do more dmg (much more), but it can be spammed only with choppa fasta active and the tactic slotted (so it has more limitations to balance the damage). BTW I don't believe lotsa chopping is a great skill for spam, but it's not too bad either

That tactic is trash, you will never have 24 ppl in front of you. The 9 ppl cap is fine. if you want to deal some sirius damage/utility as choppa Wot Rules?! is mandatory. Without Wot Rules?! you are playing a maimed class

I think it is actually 3 targets (or so the description says) if it was 9 it would be fine, at the moment is quite bad. In a few situation having the chance to spam lotsa chopping with larger range and hitting all targets you might have in that range can be useful

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=41270&start=10
At page 2 you can find some option for having your choppa with str capped, ws capped (buff included), over 9k hp and etc. That's a few good options which don't include Wot rules.
You lose something, but it's not a crippling to exclude wot rules

you are right! memory is playing me, i think i'll reevaluate Extra Choppin'