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[CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

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Poll: If Git To Da Choppa was replaced / reworked which option would you prefer see in game ?

Deff Bringa v1
44
42%
Deff Bringa v2
26
25%
GTDC reworked
36
34%
Total votes: 106

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 6982
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Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#51 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 pm

Orgruk wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:41 am
hammerhead wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:16 am
I agree, and move Shatter Limbs to Lions, like Squig. They need him more. Even the name should not be altered. And what do you suggest instead of 9pt for a slayer?
Seems good/fair to me, this could give more attractivity to lions. Hmm ... for Slayers 9 points maybe another utility buff, maybe tied to movement or something like that. Why not a group (not warband) wide immunity to roots/snare for 5 or 7 seconds. Giving mobility to a group could help change position while in danger.

hammerhead wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:16 am
Sorry for wedging in, but
- 120 buff you will not take, you will have a cap of strength anyway.
- Crit tactics are very controversial. Now the battles are very fleeting. There is no window where it would work for any significant amount.
- AA tactics are either ST or PVE.
- AI is a racial tactic that goes beyond the scope of discussion.
As far as I tested, overcaping strength is still good for the melee power and thus the damage output. I also tested without and with low crits on my order test toons and my destro, but right now I'm getting back to balancing crit and armor penetration, with high strength/melee power. Seems the most efficient with the actual meta.

Gurf wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:07 am
Unlike Greenskin wounds the Armour tactic is obviously gimped on the Slayer as the mechanic reduces armour by 50% in enrage
True I forgot that, but half of something is still better than half of nothing. Don't know if you feel the same right now but my extra HP pool on my choppa just let me be alive maybe 1 or 2 seconds more than my Slayer.
Balance is not done by sniping at each class. You're not getting buffs or nerfs in accord with your mirror. Classes need to perform on their own merits to fit the needs of their own realm. The only mirroring that we do is when it's a clear direct mirror that two classes share, and even in those we would prefer to remove them.

All of this "if Choppa gets X, then Slayer should get Y" is not how we do things. It's just petty.
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CeeJay89
Posts: 174

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#52 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:28 pm

cynicprophet wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:16 pm
I think choppa is really good in its current condition as a level 83 choppa owner i honestly do think nothing like this is required.People just always think like grass is greener on the other side.Ignorance in this thread is dangerous to the mind.Only thing choppa and slayers need is middle tree revamp.

How come all these people commenting here are mostly playing without a proper group and not even using the best thing choppa can offer like Chop Fasta.You guys are just rushing in frontline and die in 3 seconds anyways,you play like cannonfodder so your feedback in these kinda delicate balance issues makes no sense to me.I think the biggest problem here is more likely to be learn to play issue than a spesific ability requirement.I mean you guys dont even play to your strenghts,thinking inevitable doom equivalent will change your life.I play 85 slayer and 83 choppa i can easily say get to the choppa in all aspects is better than inv doom exept 6v6.Whereas that a choppa can offen CHOP FASTA in 6v6 making it a really valuable DPS with insane burst.
How DARE a greenskin imply the other side is greener.

But seriously, I'm glad a Choppa can see how valuable they are to a group's composition due to incredibly powerful abilities like Chop Fasta!

Both Slayer and Choppa are actually in a pretty damn good place, in my opinion.

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Ysaran
Posts: 795

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#53 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:29 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 pm
Balance is not done by sniping at each class. You're not getting buffs or nerfs in accord with your mirror. Classes need to perform on their own merits to fit the needs of their own realm. The only mirroring that we do is when it's a clear direct mirror that two classes share, and even in those we would prefer to remove them.

All of this "if Choppa gets X, then Slayer should get Y" is not how we do things. It's just petty.
I agree the way you do balance. Only because one class has an ability doesn't mean that its mirror should have it too. But Choppa dosn't fit the needs of Destruction. Destruction doesn't need a pull, doesn't need Chop Fasta and also doesn't need Keep On Choppin'.
REQUIEM
Dweamarak-Slayer rr75
Sputarancori-IB rr75
Onan-WP rr61
Curopoco-AM rr54

Nocturne
Zputakatarro-Choppa rr83
Zputadenti-Shaman rr70
Zputazangue-BO rr54
Zputadenti-rSH rr48
Ysaran-BG work in progres

User avatar
Ysaran
Posts: 795

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#54 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:33 pm

cynicprophet wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:16 pm
I think choppa is really good in its current condition as a level 83 choppa owner i honestly do think nothing like this is required.People just always think like grass is greener on the other side.Ignorance in this thread is dangerous to the mind.Only thing choppa and slayers need is middle tree revamp.

How come all these people commenting here are mostly playing without a proper group and not even using the best thing choppa can offer like Chop Fasta.You guys are just rushing in frontline and die in 3 seconds anyways,you play like cannonfodder so your feedback in these kinda delicate balance issues makes no sense to me.I think the biggest problem here is more likely to be learn to play issue than a spesific ability requirement.I mean you guys dont even play to your strenghts,thinking inevitable doom equivalent will change your life.I play 85 slayer and 83 choppa i can easily say get to the choppa in all aspects is better than inv doom exept 6v6.Whereas that a choppa can offen CHOP FASTA in 6v6 making it a really valuable DPS with insane burst.
So much argumentation! I don't know if I can bear it
REQUIEM
Dweamarak-Slayer rr75
Sputarancori-IB rr75
Onan-WP rr61
Curopoco-AM rr54

Nocturne
Zputakatarro-Choppa rr83
Zputadenti-Shaman rr70
Zputazangue-BO rr54
Zputadenti-rSH rr48
Ysaran-BG work in progres

User avatar
farng84
Posts: 155

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#55 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:32 pm

Ysaran wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:29 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 pm
Balance is not done by sniping at each class. You're not getting buffs or nerfs in accord with your mirror. Classes need to perform on their own merits to fit the needs of their own realm. The only mirroring that we do is when it's a clear direct mirror that two classes share, and even in those we would prefer to remove them.

All of this "if Choppa gets X, then Slayer should get Y" is not how we do things. It's just petty.
I agree the way you do balance. Only because one class has an ability doesn't mean that its mirror should have it too. But Choppa dosn't fit the needs of Destruction. Destruction doesn't need a pull, doesn't need Chop Fasta and also doesn't need Keep On Choppin'.
I agree, but I would say it could still be useful to compare to the mirror when evaluating the potential of a class. By potential I mean the overall utility, dps, survivability and all other parameters. If the overall potential of each mirror pair is balanced (e.g. one mirror has slightly higher dps but the other has slightly more viable and useful utilities, or one mirror is slightly tankier but the other offers slightly better advantages to the group) the overall could be balanced.
In that respect it might be useful to always consider mirrors in an assessment although abilities are not mirrored (class mechanics are mirrored much better than abilities)

User avatar
Oglaf
Posts: 190

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#56 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:55 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 pm
Orgruk wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:41 am
hammerhead wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:16 am
I agree, and move Shatter Limbs to Lions, like Squig. They need him more. Even the name should not be altered. And what do you suggest instead of 9pt for a slayer?
Seems good/fair to me, this could give more attractivity to lions. Hmm ... for Slayers 9 points maybe another utility buff, maybe tied to movement or something like that. Why not a group (not warband) wide immunity to roots/snare for 5 or 7 seconds. Giving mobility to a group could help change position while in danger.

hammerhead wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:16 am
Sorry for wedging in, but
- 120 buff you will not take, you will have a cap of strength anyway.
- Crit tactics are very controversial. Now the battles are very fleeting. There is no window where it would work for any significant amount.
- AA tactics are either ST or PVE.
- AI is a racial tactic that goes beyond the scope of discussion.
As far as I tested, overcaping strength is still good for the melee power and thus the damage output. I also tested without and with low crits on my order test toons and my destro, but right now I'm getting back to balancing crit and armor penetration, with high strength/melee power. Seems the most efficient with the actual meta.

Gurf wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:07 am
Unlike Greenskin wounds the Armour tactic is obviously gimped on the Slayer as the mechanic reduces armour by 50% in enrage
True I forgot that, but half of something is still better than half of nothing. Don't know if you feel the same right now but my extra HP pool on my choppa just let me be alive maybe 1 or 2 seconds more than my Slayer.
Balance is not done by sniping at each class. You're not getting buffs or nerfs in accord with your mirror. Classes need to perform on their own merits to fit the needs of their own realm. The only mirroring that we do is when it's a clear direct mirror that two classes share, and even in those we would prefer to remove them.

All of this "if Choppa gets X, then Slayer should get Y" is not how we do things. It's just petty.
Then pray tell where is the merit in 2h Choppa? There is none. Leave GTDC as is, but give them a viable 2h spec that doesn't basically gimp the crap outta you due to how GTDC is the only decent spec..?

User avatar
hammerhead
Posts: 248

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#57 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:09 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 pm

All of this "if Choppa gets X, then Slayer should get Y" is not how we do things. It's just petty.
Wargrimnir, еverything I wanted to say was done in my first post of this topic (on the fourth page). Then I simply maintained a civilized level of discussion and therefore it is not worth giving any weight to my fantasies. It's just that you are like a black box for the community. And we honestly lack some kind of interviews about where the project will go as a whole and what ideas you have at the moment on certain aspects. The widest strokes. So that then someone does not catch you by the tongue and does not demand anything.
Although in many respects we are the culprits of the current situation.
(\|)o0(|/)

Rekoom
Posts: 109

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#58 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:07 am

First option looks like a nerf. 30 sec CD on a dot that can be cleansed? Oof.
Second is also a nerf and people are even suggesting to take away Chop Fasta, one of the best aspect of playing Destro (CD decreasers)?
I don't play a Choppa but man those looks like straight nerfs you are asking for.
Rekoom - 80+ BO

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Sulorie
Posts: 5034

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#59 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:29 am

Ysaran wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:29 pm

But Choppa dosn't fit the needs of Destruction. Destruction doesn't need a pull, doesn't need Chop Fasta and also doesn't need Keep On Choppin'.
I guess you are quite alone with this opinion.
Dying is no option.

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Orgruk
Posts: 141

Re: [CHOPPA] Poll : GTDC replacement skill

Post#60 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:06 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 pm
Balance is not done by sniping at each class. You're not getting buffs or nerfs in accord with your mirror. Classes need to perform on their own merits to fit the needs of their own realm. The only mirroring that we do is when it's a clear direct mirror that two classes share, and even in those we would prefer to remove them.

All of this "if Choppa gets X, then Slayer should get Y" is not how we do things. It's just petty.
If you take a look at the suggestion in the proposal forum, you will see that this change could also benefit Magus who are, right now not that much (not at all) desired in cities and open RVR : Choppas pull gives immunites and Magus pull or tank punts become useless.

Also, as seen on ROR's Discord, Slayers abilities deal more damage than Choppas' at equivalent damage bonus (screenshots of Nyin / Runzaway if you remember), this suggestion could also help reduce the gap a little and also give both realm something.
Secrets wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:19 pm
In my opinion next round of changes should.... re-tune of Choppa's 1h AOE abilities vs the output of Slayer 1h AOE abilities

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