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Balance proposal

Black Orc, Squig Herder, Choppa, Shaman
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Dan666
Posts: 36

Re: Balance proposal

Post#11 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:41 pm

Orgruk wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:29 am Hi gitz,

I've seen the proposal made by Dan666 (just here) but can't reply to it in the Balance Proposal forum, so I'm doingt it here :
why not basing Go For Da Soft Spot and Spine Crusher ability to bypass armor upon the rage state ?

By example we could imagine :
  • Green state : only 15% armor ignored by this skill
  • Yellow state : 30% armor ignored by this skill
  • Red state : 50% armor ignored by this skill
HI Orgruk

trying to answer your question , i think the slayer is in a far better spot compare the choppa , he all know what a slayer ball
do with rampage , i dont say your proposal is bad, but this change will make the slayer just more unstoppable , so in my opinion he need to find something that dont change the slayer or hurt is build and improve where the choppa really struggle , with also in mind the less change in the main core mechanics also same for the developer too code all these change , i understand your proposal very well , why i like more the (yer getting soft) with slasha change , is because is already implement in the game ,and is a choppa tactic that identify the class , i dont think this change will be op because already he are allow to use it with reckless blow but you need to run, wot rule or , pent up rage , at the cost of 2 tactic something really to expensive for choppa , so this change will allow a bit more flexibility and option to the choppa ,

btw out of topic the rage mechanics from the old dev team is so wierd to me , because yes i understand if you are in berserk state of mind you careless but this dont change anything on your armor , because now your are in rage your plate armure become paper ??? lol this is pure magic :lol: this will make so much more sense , you suffer of parry and evade penality because your character careless in berserk mode compare half of your armor just disappear :shock: anyway nothing is perfect :) have fun and see you in the battlefield

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Orgruk
Posts: 251

Re: Balance proposal

Post#12 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:47 am

Dan666 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:41 pm HI Orgruk

trying to answer your question , i think the slayer is in a far better spot compare the choppa , he all know what a slayer ball
do with rampage , i dont say your proposal is bad, but this change will make the slayer just more unstoppable , so in my opinion he need to find something that dont change the slayer or hurt is build and improve where the choppa really struggle , with also in mind the less change in the main core mechanics also same for the developer too code all these change , i understand your proposal very well , why i like more the (yer getting soft) with slasha change , is because is already implement in the game ,and is a choppa tactic that identify the class , i dont think this change will be op because already he are allow to use it with reckless blow but you need to run, wot rule or , pent up rage , at the cost of 2 tactic something really to expensive for choppa , so this change will allow a bit more flexibility and option to the choppa ,

btw out of topic the rage mechanics from the old dev team is so wierd to me , because yes i understand if you are in berserk state of mind you careless but this dont change anything on your armor , because now your are in rage your plate armure become paper ??? lol this is pure magic :lol: this will make so much more sense , you suffer of parry and evade penality because your character careless in berserk mode compare half of your armor just disappear :shock: anyway nothing is perfect :) have fun and see you in the battlefield

Thanks for answering my question with details, it's always a pleasure to have a good discuss on our beloved class without drama around. :lol:

The problem I see with this proposal is Slasha : it's a really useless skill because of its poor damage, ineffective debuff and too high end cost regarding the first two points. :cry:

Regarding tactics, another idea I had some times ago (maybe it's within the ones linked in my sig down here) was to merge Brute Force and Don't Wanna Live Foreva so we can have more free space to swap tactics and so not to be stuck in 1 or 2 effective builds.
Image
My Choppa/Slayer proposals : Better Rage > GTDC replacement > Balance

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Dan666
Posts: 36

Re: Balance proposal

Post#13 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:40 am

Orgruk wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:47 am
Dan666 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:41 pm HI Orgruk

trying to answer your question , i think the slayer is in a far better spot compare the choppa , he all know what a slayer ball
do with rampage , i dont say your proposal is bad, but this change will make the slayer just more unstoppable , so in my opinion he need to find something that dont change the slayer or hurt is build and improve where the choppa really struggle , with also in mind the less change in the main core mechanics also same for the developer too code all these change , i understand your proposal very well , why i like more the (yer getting soft) with slasha change , is because is already implement in the game ,and is a choppa tactic that identify the class , i dont think this change will be op because already he are allow to use it with reckless blow but you need to run, wot rule or , pent up rage , at the cost of 2 tactic something really to expensive for choppa , so this change will allow a bit more flexibility and option to the choppa ,

btw out of topic the rage mechanics from the old dev team is so wierd to me , because yes i understand if you are in berserk state of mind you careless but this dont change anything on your armor , because now your are in rage your plate armure become paper ??? lol this is pure magic :lol: this will make so much more sense , you suffer of parry and evade penality because your character careless in berserk mode compare half of your armor just disappear :shock: anyway nothing is perfect :) have fun and see you in the battlefield

Thanks for answering my question with details, it's always a pleasure to have a good discuss on our beloved class without drama around. :lol:

The problem I see with this proposal is Slasha : it's a really useless skill because of its poor damage, ineffective debuff and too high end cost regarding the first two points. :cry:

Regarding tactics, another idea I had some times ago (maybe it's within the ones linked in my sig down here) was to merge Brute Force and Don't Wanna Live Foreva so we can have more free space to swap tactics and so not to be stuck in 1 or 2 effective builds.

thank you same here :D . if you put slasha in the savage tree , most choppa will also put point to pickup furious choppin this will give a 10% more power because the skill scale up in the tree , slasha will be like the good old day , same from live server , because back them most build use to be savage and de hitta , sadly today slasha is so weak because in my opinion is got any point to pick up 2hand , btw the debuff is not that bad because you stack up 3x 38 mean a total -114 toughness better vs nothing but yea other class have this type of debuff for only 1 hit , Orgruk you have better gear of me go reset your skill point and get ( no more helping) in Path of Da' Hitta and tell me how much damage your slasha do ? with a max strength and power attack
for spam attack i think is not that bad ? about the cost yea 35 the action point this drop quick , 30 will be more decent sadly he are not the developer :) , agree slasha is not the best but it some fix i`m sure this will make a decent basic attack , for sure a lot better compare now , btw agree Don't Wanna Live Foreva is so a bad tactic because you end with only 120 stats compare any other stats tactic give you 160 stats , so with Don't Wanna Live Foreva you get 80 more stats put have a penality of 120 stats this is so bad , this will be my first tactic to remove after i get pluda and Gorebringer because these weapon have so much stats , is crazy everything the choppa have come with penality compare other class, playing a choppa you need to be quick and is got no place for mistake , is so so hard because the class dont have much option and are not flexible compare other class , and the class ask so much stats , i`m agree choppa have very bad tactic overall , stats or proc on critical, and i`m not a fan of critical build because most crit are neutralize vs def again crit item with rr talen point and food , and you end with a choppa with low armor pen because everything is so expensive for a choppa , so you only crit noob , vs good player you hit a wall and dont crit mean your tactic are useless and end stuck with low pen again tank mean you dont kill crap lol ,btw your idea to marge 2 tactic in one is not bad and not op compare the marauder piecing bite that is the equivalent of 700 ws lol i`m agree with you is insane how much stats the choppa need and he have only 1 tactic slot free , that why i can not affort too only use 1 set of gear , i`m only hunting down all stats possible to free a other tactic slot , i dont care to use lower dps weapon with pluda and Gorebringer , i will be 75% armor pen and spam the crap of reckless blow with (yer getting soft) and wot rule or pent up rage if is not working i give up lol

. now my choppa have 3 warlord , 3 berserker (miss the body mean later 4 ) and 3 pve bestlord

jshort
Posts: 51

Re: Balance proposal

Post#14 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:12 am

You corretly mentioned that on live people played dual wield st choppa, with incoming healdebuff, Furious Choppin and put the rest of the point in hitta tree, sometimes taking Bleed Em Out.

Have you tried this spec in RoR?

It has not changed at all it still does amazing single target dmg, and if you spent points on hitta tree Slasha dmg is almost on the same level as Go For the Soft Spot.

But these days people just run around spamming GtdC when ever its rdy and pick furious chopping but no healdebuff, even in scenario and smallscale fights. They top the dmg scoreboard but have no real impact on kills ...
*Hint* Spamming Gtdc in sc is as stupid as bo spamming ae knockback... free immunities so others cant use there "usefull" kicks
(Yes in a wb with a ae setup running standard ae choppa build makes sense ofcourse, i do that too and it works very well)
I see choppas spamming Lotsa Choppin vs a single target ... which always makes me wonder if they are roleplaying... beeing a dumb orc who can just rush, attack, repeat like the orcs in
Lord of the Rings... maybe try evolving to an Uruk Hai. (if you dont do this dont feel accused)

We got Bring It On as an offensive ability in RoR, which on live was useless. (Old version was you only hit back to targets attacking you, so a superior Riposte 2.0 5s channel ability.) And Extra Chopping hitting 24 targets now. So we got 2 Buffs on our Ae Dmg.

I agree that choppa does not have much flexibility on tactics, 3 are set and you can change 1. But many classes have this issue. And we get 120 str and 120 wsk for just 1 tactic slot, this is the reason we dont need an armor pen tactic, with the 120 extra str we can stack our armor with wsk talis and still reach str cap and >60% armor pen.

As stated before: The only downside of choppa i see right now is the not worthy 2hand build. The main reason for this beeing the limited rage managment, and the number of rage spending abilies 2hand uses. But i recommend to try it out, the burst dmg with 2hand is so nice. Slot pent up rage as 4th tactic, wait till you hit red (which feels like ages, takes atleast 15 seconds. This really sucks since we have no option to boost rage), boost your aa speed, knockdown, AA, Weaklin Killa, AA, No More Helpin, AA, this can almost 3 shot a WH if you have some critluck.

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Dan666
Posts: 36

Re: Balance proposal

Post#15 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:06 am

jshort wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:12 am You corretly mentioned that on live people played dual wield st choppa, with incoming healdebuff, Furious Choppin and put the rest of the point in hitta tree, sometimes taking Bleed Em Out.

Have you tried this spec in RoR?

It has not changed at all it still does amazing single target dmg, and if you spent points on hitta tree Slasha dmg is almost on the same level as Go For the Soft Spot.

But these days people just run around spamming GtdC when ever its rdy and pick furious chopping but no healdebuff, even in scenario and smallscale fights. They top the dmg scoreboard but have no real impact on kills ...
*Hint* Spamming Gtdc in sc is as stupid as bo spamming ae knockback... free immunities so others cant use there "usefull" kicks
(Yes in a wb with a ae setup running standard ae choppa build makes sense ofcourse, i do that too and it works very well)
I see choppas spamming Lotsa Choppin vs a single target ... which always makes me wonder if they are roleplaying... beeing a dumb orc who can just rush, attack, repeat like the orcs in
Lord of the Rings... maybe try evolving to an Uruk Hai. (if you dont do this dont feel accused)

We got Bring It On as an offensive ability in RoR, which on live was useless. (Old version was you only hit back to targets attacking you, so a superior Riposte 2.0 5s channel ability.) And Extra Chopping hitting 24 targets now. So we got 2 Buffs on our Ae Dmg.

I agree that choppa does not have much flexibility on tactics, 3 are set and you can change 1. But many classes have this issue. And we get 120 str and 120 wsk for just 1 tactic slot, this is the reason we dont need an armor pen tactic, with the 120 extra str we can stack our armor with wsk talis and still reach str cap and >60% armor pen.

As stated before: The only downside of choppa i see right now is the not worthy 2hand build. The main reason for this beeing the limited rage managment, and the number of rage spending abilies 2hand uses. But i recommend to try it out, the burst dmg with 2hand is so nice. Slot pent up rage as 4th tactic, wait till you hit red (which feels like ages, takes atleast 15 seconds. This really sucks since we have no option to boost rage), boost your aa speed, knockdown, AA, Weaklin Killa, AA, No More Helpin, AA, this can almost 3 shot a WH if you have some critluck.
hello jshort to answer your question (Have you tried this spec in RoR? )yes
and is not working very well in this server because most player zerg in warban , like you say everyone spamming GtdC and Lotsa Choppin same with the slayer and other class , mean most player spam aoe and these attack have a 25 feet range , compare to be a single target build are 5 feet , mean most of the time you close the gap you take a load of damage and he all know how choppa or slayer dont take the damage very well ( sure in premade is a other story but is not my case ) , same the time he attack the keep or def the keep again the big fire aoe of the Bright Wizard he can not do that much melee or he burn alive , the only option is to stay far and spam GtdC and Lotsa Choppin , this is why most player do this meta , or you die in 2 sec with a choppa :( 30 to 35 feet attack vs 5 feet attack , also Extra Chopping is bad with the -20% dps is only good vs noob , marauder just have to pick demolition with piecing bite that is the equivalent of 700 ws point , Don't Wanna Live Foreva is total garbage you have 240 stats with -120 penelity stats mean 120 in the end , any other stats tactic give you 160 stats mean for 80 extra you take a penality of 120 stats this have nothing good there compare the tactic piecing bite from the marauder(the equivalent of 700 ws) 50%armor pen , i`m not agree choppa have more downside compare a slayer , rampage is able to bypass the cost of 75% parry and block and a choppa not so vs a tank choppa or high parry build choppa have a hard time ,about 2 hand build i already try it out in live server and this server , is got any point to play 2 hand with wor rule and die in 2 sec vs all the spamming aoe zerg on this server i`m dead before to hit something , on sc is a other story but for other reason i`m not a fan of sc , i hope this answer some of your question , time to sleep for me have a good day or night peace

User avatar
Orgruk
Posts: 251

Re: Balance proposal

Post#16 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:52 am

Dan666 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:40 am Orgruk you have better gear of me go reset your skill point and get ( no more helping) in Path of Da' Hitta and tell me how much damage your slasha do ? with a max strength and power attack
for spam attack i think is not that bad ? about the cost yea 35 the action point this drop quick , 30 will be more decent sadly he are not the developer :)
I'll give it a try. I don't remember exact numbers when I first tried and also when I tested a Savage/Hitta spec like I used to run sometimes on live but I remember it wasn't that high and that's why I unsloted Slasha so I can use Throat Slasha instead. :)
Image
My Choppa/Slayer proposals : Better Rage > GTDC replacement > Balance

squiggastolemybike
Posts: 42

Re: Balance proposal

Post#17 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:02 am

just L2P. it helps. :shock: :o :lol:
83 Marauder ][ 82 Zealot ][ 82 Chosen
83 Black Orc ][ 82 Ironbreaker ][ 81 Blackguard
82 Sorceress ][ 83 Choppa ][ 82 Shadow Warrior
81 Witch Elf ][ 81 Witch Hunter ][ 81 Squig Herder
83 Shaman ][ 82 DoK ][ 80 WP ][ 79 SL, SM, WL

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