Your thoughts about Mara

[puzzolamistica]

mara is probably the strongest all arround dps on this game.
If u feel weak playing it try to play an order dps an then talk again .
u have 100% armor pen wile u play st and aoe, best armor debuff on the game, 50% more crit damage, 20% more crit, aoe kd (no one has it), aoe interrupt, pull, mutation bonus.
What u want more? to be God?

mara dont have 100% armor pen, monstro proc make the mara immune to enemy armor penetration from weapon skill, but still susceptible to flat ignore % armor bonus.
armor debuff is the same of white lion, literally same ability.
wl can slot 50% crit damage aswell tied to pet but no need to spec for it via mastery.
20% more crit tact is shared with shadow warrior.
aoe interrupt same for wl.
mutation bonus is quite similar to WL self buffs.
on the ther hand u have to stance dance to be effective while wl dont and SW basically neither since they have everything minus 1 dot in they assault stance.

50% armor pen stack whit weapon skill so is not 100% but he has the higest armor pen on the game, wl has it only on aoe skills mara has it on any mutation ability even if he spec aoe so in a wb he can still do a really good st assist, way better than wl he also has more utility whit the aoe kd, pull, stat buff and debuff so yes is better than wl if u play in wb.
Talking about 6man he still has armor pen wile wl dosent have it, the crit pet buff is worst than maraouder one, he has ap drain, and more sustain damage, he has an heal debuff wl is just better on burst squishes and mobility.
Mara is the most solid dps on the game he is always good, he could be stacked on wb and if u play 6 man is the best meele dps on destro side.

[Gatto]

mara is probably the strongest all arround dps on this game.
If u feel weak playing it try to play an order dps an then talk again .
u have 100% armor pen wile u play st and aoe, best armor debuff on the game, 50% more crit damage, 20% more crit, aoe kd (no one has it), aoe interrupt, pull, mutation bonus.
What u want more? to be God?

mara dont have 100% armor pen, monstro proc make the mara immune to enemy armor penetration from weapon skill, but still susceptible to flat ignore % armor bonus.
armor debuff is the same of white lion, literally same ability.
wl can slot 50% crit damage aswell tied to pet but no need to spec for it via mastery.
20% more crit tact is shared with shadow warrior.
aoe interrupt same for wl.
mutation bonus is quite similar to WL self buffs.
on the ther hand u have to stance dance to be effective while wl dont and SW basically neither since they have everything minus 1 dot in they assault stance.

50% armor pen stack whit weapon skill so is not 100% but he has the higest armor pen on the game, wl has it only on aoe skills mara has it on any mutation ability even if he spec aoe so in a wb he can still do a really good st assist, way better than wl he also has more utility whit the aoe kd, pull, stat buff and debuff so yes is better than wl if u play in wb.
Talking about 6man he still has armor pen wile wl dosent have it, the crit pet buff is worst than maraouder one, he has ap drain, and more sustain damage, he has an heal debuff wl is just better on burst squishes and mobility.
Mara is the most solid dps on the game he is always good, he could be stacked on wb and if u play 6 man is the best meele dps on destro side.

so ye a mara have a good armor pen and all your other points are incorrect and probably a invader slayer/choppa can reach the same armor pen if not more and aoe abilities hit way harder than mara ones which have low damage tooltip
WL is still one of the best class for 6v6 and when paired with ASW/slayer is one of the best comp around for order.

[Mergrim]

mara is probably the strongest all arround dps on this game.
If u feel weak playing it try to play an order dps an then talk again .
u have 100% armor pen wile u play st and aoe, best armor debuff on the game, 50% more crit damage, 20% more crit, aoe kd (no one has it), aoe interrupt, pull, mutation bonus.
What u want more? to be God?

mara dont have 100% armor pen, monstro proc make the mara immune to enemy armor penetration from weapon skill, but still susceptible to flat ignore % armor bonus.
armor debuff is the same of white lion, literally same ability.
wl can slot 50% crit damage aswell tied to pet but no need to spec for it via mastery.
20% more crit tact is shared with shadow warrior.
aoe interrupt same for wl.
mutation bonus is quite similar to WL self buffs.
on the ther hand u have to stance dance to be effective while wl dont and SW basically neither since they have everything minus 1 dot in they assault stance.

50% armor pen stack whit weapon skill so is not 100% but he has the higest armor pen on the game, wl has it only on aoe skills mara has it on any mutation ability even if he spec aoe so in a wb he can still do a really good st assist, way better than wl he also has more utility whit the aoe kd, pull, stat buff and debuff so yes is better than wl if u play in wb.
Talking about 6man he still has armor pen wile wl dosent have it, the crit pet buff is worst than maraouder one, he has ap drain, and more sustain damage, he has an heal debuff wl is just better on burst squishes and mobility.
Mara is the most solid dps on the game he is always good, he could be stacked on wb and if u play 6 man is the best meele dps on destro side.

[Fenris78]

Probably unusual numbers but I may be wrong...

I was on the receiving end, and never approched those kind of insane crit dmg on my WH/WL, even with +50% crit dmg and flanking bonuses...

Brutality +25% buff + Mutated agressor hitting for more than 2k on autoattacks is just insane, especially when offhand is proccing all the time. The stacking of these bonuses should be revieved since I dont think those numbers should be fair, especially for a 1h weapon.

The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?

In comparison the WL cant have all this (lack the 50% ignore armor on big hitting skills), and need to be behind his targets to get the 25% added dmg, while not having bonuses on AA hits (while his 2H aa is about the same as 1H from Marauder).

Alos I noticed (see screenshot) unusual amount of dmg from concussion X, wich is 1. meant to inflict only 360 dmg per hit and 2. Not being affected by any dmg increaser (like every proc dmg in game). Hence I see average hits for 490, and max hit for 622, meaning there is clearly a bug or unintended dmg increase on this proc.

[Sundowner]

Probably guillotine armor pen from tactic should go, no mdps should crit that hard

[Mergrim]

Both class are broken now.
I see 2 problem. First is mara monstro buff, 100ignore armor penetration and 1000self heal in 5sec. Need to change this.
Second is on WL Whirling Axe hitting everything around WL 30feet, when wrecking ball on mara hit only on front(same with slayer retribution and choppa bring it on). This is huge diffrent compare to rest melle class. Thats why all WL now can easy outdps slayer in city.

Remember if you use Piercing bite tactic only half bonus from ws work. In BiS gear you have around 69-70% armor penetration on mutation skill. Still broken 700ws tactic.

I don't know how ws work on wl with ignore tactic, my wl is still lvl 1(someone need to test it).

Single target spec are fine.
Mara is best melle single target spec on destro side.
WL is just fine, less dmg but better mobility.

[Pandastyle]

Probably unusual numbers but I may be wrong...

I was on the receiving end, and never approched those kind of insane crit dmg on my WH/WL, even with +50% crit dmg and flanking bonuses...

Brutality +25% buff + Mutated agressor hitting for more than 2k on autoattacks is just insane, especially when offhand is proccing all the time. The stacking of these bonuses should be revieved since I dont think those numbers should be fair, especially for a 1h weapon.

The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?

In comparison the WL cant have all this (lack the 50% ignore armor on big hitting skills), and need to be behind his targets to get the 25% added dmg, while not having bonuses on AA hits (while his 2H aa is about the same as 1H from Marauder).

Alos I noticed (see screenshot) unusual amount of dmg from concussion X, wich is 1. meant to inflict only 360 dmg per hit and 2. Not being affected by any dmg increaser (like every proc dmg in game). Hence I see average hits for 490, and max hit for 622, meaning there is clearly a bug or unintended dmg increase on this proc.

I am genouninly curious where this data comes from, when you say you was on receiving end? Is there some kind of addon for that?
All I can say about that, is that I never saw an almost 3k crit on my guillotine, rarely see a +2k and if I do its against debuffed BWs/AMs/etc. These numbers look like a highly optimal situation where you fire off MA and the brut buff procs at the same time, while having your target under 50% and not having guillotine on CD.

[Sundowner]

Probably unusual numbers but I may be wrong...

I was on the receiving end, and never approched those kind of insane crit dmg on my WH/WL, even with +50% crit dmg and flanking bonuses...

Brutality +25% buff + Mutated agressor hitting for more than 2k on autoattacks is just insane, especially when offhand is proccing all the time. The stacking of these bonuses should be revieved since I dont think those numbers should be fair, especially for a 1h weapon.

The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?

In comparison the WL cant have all this (lack the 50% ignore armor on big hitting skills), and need to be behind his targets to get the 25% added dmg, while not having bonuses on AA hits (while his 2H aa is about the same as 1H from Marauder).

Alos I noticed (see screenshot) unusual amount of dmg from concussion X, wich is 1. meant to inflict only 360 dmg per hit and 2. Not being affected by any dmg increaser (like every proc dmg in game). Hence I see average hits for 490, and max hit for 622, meaning there is clearly a bug or unintended dmg increase on this proc.

I am genouninly curious where this data comes from, when you say you was on receiving end? Is there some kind of addon for that?
All I can say about that, is that I never saw an almost 3k crit on my guillotine, rarely see a +2k and if I do its against debuffed BWs/AMs/etc. These numbers look like a highly optimal situation where you fire off MA and the brut buff procs at the same time, while having your target under 50% and not having guillotine on CD.

3k is probably on low armor target. But I casually receive 1.7k crits from maras on medium armor. 50% armor ignore on high dmg skill which always crits is too much.

[wachlarz]

Probably unusual numbers but I may be wrong...

I was on the receiving end, and never approched those kind of insane crit dmg on my WH/WL, even with +50% crit dmg and flanking bonuses...

Brutality +25% buff + Mutated agressor hitting for more than 2k on autoattacks is just insane, especially when offhand is proccing all the time. The stacking of these bonuses should be revieved since I dont think those numbers should be fair, especially for a 1h weapon.

The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?

In comparison the WL cant have all this (lack the 50% ignore armor on big hitting skills), and need to be behind his targets to get the 25% added dmg, while not having bonuses on AA hits (while his 2H aa is about the same as 1H from Marauder).

Alos I noticed (see screenshot) unusual amount of dmg from concussion X, wich is 1. meant to inflict only 360 dmg per hit and 2. Not being affected by any dmg increaser (like every proc dmg in game). Hence I see average hits for 490, and max hit for 622, meaning there is clearly a bug or unintended dmg increase on this proc.

This numbers are from dummy ?

[rrrutsss]

Both class are broken now.
I see 2 problem. First is mara monstro buff, 100ignore armor penetration and 1000self heal in 5sec. Need to change this.
Second is on WL Whirling Axe hitting everything around WL 30feet, when wrecking ball on mara hit only on front(same with slayer retribution and choppa bring it on). This is huge diffrent compare to rest melle class. Thats why all WL now can easy outdps slayer in city.

Remember if you use Piercing bite tactic only half bonus from ws work. In BiS gear you have around 69-70% armor penetration on mutation skill. Still broken 700ws tactic.

I don't know how ws work on wl with ignore tactic, my wl is still lvl 1(someone need to test it).

Single target spec are fine.
Mara is best melle single target spec on destro side.
WL is just fine, less dmg but better mobility.

Wl less dmg but better mobility? Must be joking. Wl got better dmg and better mobility