[Chosen] Questions regarding RvR SnB Tank

[th3gatekeeper]

Yes, you can't look at something and say "OP!" without the context of all the other balance, but your argument is specifically flawed in that you say "mythic gave them these to balance the game," ignoring the fact that all morale gain is lower (except these tactics.. correct me if I'm wrong). Which means they are hyper-performing outside of whatever mythic intended them to do. And, speaking as if anything from live actually mattered is moot. The balance is around what actually occurs now, not what occurred then. RoR is RoR. Live is dead. And what is occurring now, specifically with chosen, in the context of my response to one person, is "boo hoo woe is me my chosen can't reduce multiple target's dmg by 25% for 10s anymore so now I guess I'm forced to gain an even higher damage reduction on my party for 10s every minute! Waaaahhhhhh."

The thing is, ballance is pure numbers and Morales arn't a meechanic that seperated from the otheer combat mechanics of Tactics and Ablites. It's all intergrated into one and the same combat system. RoR is very heavily based on the AoR combat system which was ballanced around Abilties, Tactics and Morales. Giving someone a tactic that increase AA by 50% is counter ballanced on another class with a ability that lower damage output by 20%. And a tactic that allowes for AoE AP drain is counter mirrored on a Morale on another class as examples. Someone of RoR have decided that Morale ballance shouldn't be a part of integrated core
combat system anymore coz AoE damage is bad. So instead of dealing with AoE Morale damage morale gain was pushedb back to 1/4 of what it orginal vallue, a vallue that somone with extensive game design experience caculated to be ballanced. So No, morale pumps arn't ballanced atm but it's not the pumps thats the problem it's that the core Morale gain isn't implemented correctly. You would've have acess M4 on every class in 100 seconds not 6 minutes. Until that is properly implemented or the combat mechanic is redesign from scratch there will ALWAYS been ballance issues. Especially since one realm was designed to have faster acess to the best ones and the other realm to have more powerfull early ones.

Thanks for saying this much better than I could. This is what I was getting at earlier, that ita easy to point at one piece in isolation however the game involves all three if these pieces to create


imo, it's too intricate if you asked me and they should have just created near mirror classes instead if creating a VERY complex.web of balance...

That would have squashed any balance issues from the start. Less creative, yes... but easier, by far.

I agree. Morale gain rates restored is step 1.

[Haskr]

Thank you for all the replies so far, i dont really mind the derailment, its allways helpfull to listen to experienced players

I could improve my tanking by a big chunk thanks to your help, however, since i wanted to create some man-at-arms character (late medieval, early renaissance), i switched sides and play Kotbs now, but thats mostly because of lore and looks

I wanted to tell of some of the improvements i made, maybe if other people are new too, they might profit.

1. I created a click cast with enemy addon, so guard is applied when i click on the groupmate in the warband rooster, this is very helpfull to swap guards quickly, ofc the pros know that, but for me it was new, and it turned out great.

2. I finally decided to stack toughness talismans, i know people have different views on that, but for me it worked since i mostly play rvr and i just felt a big big improve in sustain on the battlefield.

3. im maxing avoidance first (block, dodge and disrupt, parry), there are many nice things to pick from the rr, i even thought about that no cc for 10 secs on you thing, but since im only rr34 now, i have to limit the points to the really essential stuff, i would take them all if i could, but thats the way it is right now . Also parry helps a lot to mitigate guard dmg, although i miss mixed defenses for my knight (though there is a tactic to buff parry with shield rush, which i currently use)

4. I went for winds impervious set and mark of the bulwark, i think the genesis set would be nice too, but it is kind of luck if you get the bag or not. Im also waiting for the new chapter 22pq set, to see what it brings for us tanks.

However, there are new questions i have, and since they regard tanks and tankiness in general, im just writing them here, if thats not allowed, i can creat a new topic in empire forum.

1. What is the softcap for toughness? Im at 980 now and could get a bit more, but i would like to know how far you can go.

2. What is a good initative number? Im at 209 at the moment, and to be honest, it seems a bit to low, but im thinking of how to get it higher, without loosing tankiness in some other point and make it a zero-sum change.

3. Im going for the rr39 sc weapons, because of the 2% block/parry and crit reduction, are there better weapons for tanks or is the sc stuff top notch?

I did some armor testing in the rvr zones (by just going solo and drag attention/ask of gankers, solo roamers, warbands) to see how the defenses do. I like the results so far, against ranged caster dd (sorc,magus, muctep gank party) the results are good, most of the stuff gets blocked and disrupted, but there are some sorcs who have a build that hits me hard with high crits. Against Melee DD (Marauder, We and choppa) it is mixed, some roamers know their job and take you down rather quickly (had some 1v1s with a choppa named torgaan, wo was really helpfull to test the tankiness, also a nice guy!). Some ranged dd hit me harder than i like, teefz gank group does to much crit dmg for my liking, thats why i was looking for a good number on initiative, in my eyes it is unacceptable to get a 300 or even 400 crit as a tank, and the sh debuff hits hart in those situations (though there are some sh who dont hit hart at all, maybe there are different builds out there) Also saw one or two palanx groups and went down much to quick for my licking, maybe i popped vigilance too early, also resolute defence would be nice in those situations, but like i said, im low rr so i cant have it all.

So yes, im in the testing phase and allways interested to get some numbers in the combat log, so if you want some 1vs1 or 1vsX test fights, feel free to message me ingame, i dont do any dmg, its just to test my defenses/positioning, i dont have any pots at the moment, need to level that , also you can test playing against a tank, so both sides can profit! Im also in the phase to learn what my opponents have for skills/builds, since its quite hard to know from the beginning, how to behave if you meet class x or player y. So i might look like the noob i am, but a man has to start somewhere

And a last personal thing, if someone would like to follow up on my chosen armory topic, please feel free to contribute, as i dont have my chosen anymore, but its still a fashionable class, bl, two piece set and conq set are still missing, also 2h axes and swords.
Also feels free to post you chosen (maybe if you have a concept, like my chosen of tzeentch was), i see some VERY fashionable chosens on the field

see you!

edit: sorry for all the smilies, the sun is shining today!

[Collateral]

The soft cap for toughness is 1045. I would recommend you rather reduce it a bit and get more initiative, 209 is relatively low. That's why SHs and sorcs hurt so much. I wrote in another thread that my minimum is 220, plus get reduced crit from gear ofc. I could 1v1 you if you want, wouldn't mind it at all, but I'm a tank as well so I won't be a good estimation of how much damage you can take

[dansari]

Happy to test damage on you with my SW. I agree toughness is high and init is low. I'm not an expert, but I've seen players say that 300 init minimum and 800 toughness minimum is a good place.