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dansari wrote:Yes, you can't look at something and say "OP!" without the context of all the other balance, but your argument is specifically flawed in that you say "mythic gave them these to balance the game," ignoring the fact that all morale gain is lower (except these tactics.. correct me if I'm wrong). Which means they are hyper-performing outside of whatever mythic intended them to do. And, speaking as if anything from live actually mattered is moot. The balance is around what actually occurs now, not what occurred then. RoR is RoR. Live is dead. And what is occurring now, specifically with chosen, in the context of my response to one person, is "boo hoo woe is me my chosen can't reduce multiple target's dmg by 25% for 10s anymore so now I guess I'm forced to gain an even higher damage reduction on my party for 10s every minute! Waaaahhhhhh."
the morale gain nerf was a ROR choice - and one that not everyone agreed with mind you... Which means that Destru pumps are actually INLINE with what Mythic intended, not hyper performing. Its actually the non pump classes that are UNDER performing.
Also, this was addressed in the morale discussion that destru has pumps, but its actually the morale damage abilities which are lower on the morale chain that are the problem in RVR - in which order takes the cake there. I had suggessted that Destru had a better "morale situation" due to pumps but was told that is false. They have faster access to M4 but thats not what is causing issues in the game atm. (not my opinion mind you).
Id like to add, Rending Blade is a close melee ability, so its not like it was easy to have for uptime. You had to get within melee range and crit to proc it. Considering Rending blade's CD of 5 seconds, its not like it was "easy to keep up" on targets that were not trying to facetank you.
Im sorry I just look at some of these comments and its very clear bias is showing here. In a bad way...
And no, its not about "im forced to gain eve higher blah blah" its now you are forcing 2H chosen to play SnB. Thats the issue. If they want to be "competitive".
Might as well get rid of the stacking resist debuffs for SM as well as Az's 30% damage bonus e gave them too, you know, cause "balance and all" I mean we can go at it all day - pointing fingers.
The backlash on this change ISNT because of people wanting to be OP... People werent running warbands full of 2H Chosen LOL... In fact MANY premades wouldnt even invite 2H Chosens...
The game wasnt running amuck with 2H chosens everywhere (like we have with WL population atm).
Im sorry its just laughable.. I cant post here anymore because its making my blood boil.. no pun intended.
Even though most questions will have been answered already:
Haskr wrote:
Spoiler:
Hello all!
A few weeks ago i started with RoR and rolled chosen, because i remembered him from live and found the auras rather nice and wanted to play as a tank. However, as i hit T4 and want to improve my grasp of the class, i have some questions regarding playing in RvR (what i do most of the time) and it would be verry much appreciated, if some experienced chosen players could help me out!
1. How much strength do i need? Atm i am at 264, as i read this forum, some ppl suggested to have about 600 to get your cc to the target, wich is quite reasonable, but is this really for SnB or 2h? If it is, how do you reach this numbers, even if i would full stack str talis, it seems difficult.
2. Related to that: What should be the go-to way to stack talis? As i inspect many chosen, i see many of them stacking thoughness. But also many other combinations.
3. What set of gear should i use? atm i have full ruin, subjugator shroud and still a t3 purple belt from rvr, because i found no better one. I have enough RR and medals to buy the conq belt, should i do that? I cant see the set bonus, but it would take some time to get a second piece of conq after the belt. I also could buy full anihilation, but i allways hesitate to lose the 7% block from ruin, even if ani has better stats.
4. What are the stats that im looking for as RvR SnB Tank? My stats at the moment are the following:
Str: 264
Tough: 694 (Without Aura)
Wounds: 768
Initative: 169
Weapons Skill: 228
Resistances (Without Aura): Spirit 487, Element 427, Corp 425
5. What set of jewelry to use? i have one genesis piece, but am using 3% dodge and disrupt tome set and a mark of the guardian (1% Block) at the moment, because to get the genesis stuff together is rather difficult to plan.
6. What kind of build should i run? I link my current one, but what are the experienced players using? I also use quake, but could not pic it in builder RoR.builders - Chosen
7. What Auras should i have? I use AP, Resistance and Toughness atm, is that it? I rolled with healing aura for some time, until i noticed that AP aura maybe helps a bit more for my teammates, even if its less survivability when i get ganked or stuff like that. Do the 20 ap every 5 secs really hurt the enemy? I dont have that impression right now.
8. What is the generall playstile? Atm i apply guard to a mdps and follow him arround, try to assist him by cc his target and so on, but many mdps dont seem to know that they have guard on them, and run verry weirdly arround.
9. Last question regarding tankiness in the broader picture. I had some very strange gankings, when i was riding to BO's alone. Some (not all) WH and WL bring me down rather quickly, which i have no problem with, but i wonder how they do that. I try to apply Touch of Palsi, Sever Blessing, get Suppression up, watch that they dont get in my backside, but still it feels sometimes like i have no armor at all, but im way over the soft cap, so yeah. I am just wondering, because at other times, if i have a bit of heal support, maybe have shield wall and/or hold the line up, and my back is free, a whole zerg can focus me and nothing really happens, had those moment a few times and its allways enjoyable, but then you ride alone for five meter and a wh or wl drops you rather quickly, always find that strange, because i saw some Kotbs on the field who seem to be ungankable, and i wanted to become like that.
Thank you for your time and help!
Edit: I also see many chosen run with one hand axe instead of sword, is that just personal preference or does the axe have something that the sword doesnt?
1.) Average WS to be achived without dedication sits at around ~400-500 on mdps/rdps, everyone above that started dedicating/picking up conq/BL or is a SL/SW/KotBs; or is either buffed by an SM statsteal/an IB with its buff running. You want to pierce through that, so yeah, +600 should be aimed at if you want to properly CC and not dance around your targets 24/7.
[Abbd.: You want to sit at a mainstat value that - even if debuffed - is able to pierce through the natural avoidance, otherwise you'll have to chew through both avoidances; "true" avoidance + natural avoidance = pain in your butt.]
2.) Highly depends on format and composition. I'd personally suggest you run toughness, but meh.
3.) Mix/max via mix and match of setgear, you might want to give some influence items a shot and check your respective t4 epic quest rewards if you are on the lookout for weapons. See this spreadsheet provided by the devs - there are some minor mistakes in there (they might account for coming changes, dunno).
4.) Stats entirely depend on your setup, so even if you were provided stats by others you'd have nothing from it. Btw, you can just screenshot stuff and add it as picture, no need to type it out.
5.) Generally speaking: you should min/max for avoidance, wounds, initiative and toughness.
You might want to grab the skavenring (search on the forums for the skaven event) depending on the setup you want to run - choose wisely tho, you will not be able to change it once you picked it up - it provides a talisman slot. Have a look at this thread for easy accesible jewelry.
[Abbd.: You might want to ask around and see what the BL lairs drop, some drop fancy jewelry with hp/s on them among other things.]
6.) RoR.builders - Chosen is pretty much the go-to spec. Tactics depend on circumstances - e.g.: superpunt for scenarios, ...
7.) Yes, thats it. Barely any variation possible outside of pug scenarios, due to stacking issues/reliability.
8.) Guard + Guardswap + HtL-dance + CC + assist + Taunt + Challenge, thats about it for the most part. Get the GES addon to annouce guardswaps, it keeps mdps on their toes and generally helps people adjust - it also displays guardrange and guardee HP.
[Abbd.: Ofc there is a bit more finnicky stuff, but unless you are ontop of your guardswap game theres no point bothering yet.]
9.) Torment on the WH completly ignores armor, WL got 1k armor debuff (among other ways to circumvent your armor).
To the edit: Its just skins. The only weapontypes that have a trait to them are 2h (10% block strikethrough) and dualwield (+10% parry).
Abbd.: My honest apologies for contributing to the derailment of your thread, I hope you were able to pick up some information before the CS nonsense started.
Abbd.: Just noticed Luucas amazing, not halfarsed (see mine, /sadface) post - stick to it as if your life depends on it.
dansari wrote:Yes, you can't look at something and say "OP!" without the context of all the other balance, but your argument is specifically flawed in that you say "mythic gave them these to balance the game," ignoring the fact that all morale gain is lower (except these tactics.. correct me if I'm wrong). Which means they are hyper-performing outside of whatever mythic intended them to do. And, speaking as if anything from live actually mattered is moot. The balance is around what actually occurs now, not what occurred then. RoR is RoR. Live is dead. And what is occurring now, specifically with chosen, in the context of my response to one person, is "boo hoo woe is me my chosen can't reduce multiple target's dmg by 25% for 10s anymore so now I guess I'm forced to gain an even higher damage reduction on my party for 10s every minute! Waaaahhhhhh."
The thing is, ballance is pure numbers and Morales arn't a meechanic that seperated from the otheer combat mechanics of Tactics and Ablites. It's all intergrated into one and the same combat system. RoR is very heavily based on the AoR combat system which was ballanced around Abilties, Tactics and Morales. Giving someone a tactic that increase AA by 50% is counter ballanced on another class with a ability that lower damage output by 20%. And a tactic that allowes for AoE AP drain is counter mirrored on a Morale on another class as examples. Someone of RoR have decided that Morale ballance shouldn't be a part of integrated core
combat system anymore coz AoE damage is bad. So instead of dealing with AoE Morale damage morale gain was pushedb back to 1/4 of what it orginal vallue, a vallue that somone with extensive game design experience caculated to be ballanced. So No, morale pumps arn't ballanced atm but it's not the pumps thats the problem it's that the core Morale gain isn't implemented correctly. You would've have acess M4 on every class in 100 seconds not 6 minutes. Until that is properly implemented or the combat mechanic is redesign from scratch there will ALWAYS been ballance issues. Especially since one realm was designed to have faster acess to the best ones and the other realm to have more powerfull early ones.
roadkillrobin wrote:So No, morale pumps arn't ballanced atm
This is all I wanted you to acknowledge. Should morale gain rates be changed? Maybe, even though from what I've seen they (staff) do not want to change them. But speaking as if these specific abilities are totally normal for where we are now is being misleading.
idk about moral reates i would prefer see mobs in keep stop build moral... that would balance fight a lot more since when destru push inside his with order in lord room he dosentt even have time to build morales becasue it get obblitarate by order m 2-3.
Or introduces sov stuff so some hide WE can reset moral..... it's very unfair that order can build a ista wipe tool so easily + have all his passive stuff. If at least these morales were channeling you could at least counter play it with interrupt aoe.
Order use mobs to gain access to something he would have not otherwise in keep fight, we cant on the other side get in return anything by just stay in the keep.
Imposible to dodge the Morale rates issues on anything revolving builds or ballance when it's sucj big part of the combat mechanic and arn't working in a ballanced way. Especially on a class that having a morale tactic.
I think Morale rates need to be restored to proper rates before we can start a proper ballance or build discussion about anything tbh.
Last edited by roadkillrobin on Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
roadkillrobin wrote:Imposible to dodge the Morale rates issues on anything revolving builds or ballance when it's not working. Especially on a class that having a morale tactic.
I think Morale rates need to be restored to proper rates before we can start a proper ballance or build discussion about anything tbh.
Well I agree it's a core issue. When things are not working properly, people will always point it out no matter what I guess.
