[Magus] Why would anyone play Magus over Sorc?

[ToXoS]

Lol I love the Fester comments. Fester is not a spec considered to be good by anyone other than the people who look at paper and say.. oohhh so damage much wow (normally people that don't play SW). I don't play SH but I've been bursted by one (outside of m2) and while a SW can provide more consistent damage, a SH can provide more burst (outside of a gimmicky Fester spec that anyone above rr49 outlives). That was my point. One that can likely be validated by SH mains.

My other point is, again mainly for devil's advocate, why does a magus need to have the ability to burst? Sorc can burst from range and is the prime class to do so. SH have better burst than their "mirror" albeit by only a little. Out of all of the rdps classes destro has, does it not warrant having a supporting dps? Sure you could take a sorc instead but the same can be said for taking a BW over an engy.

Edit: I just re-read the first statement. Lol. Steady Aim. Steady Aim hasn't had a place on my hotbar since mid 2016. Lol. **** steady aim. Gtfo

I main SH.
And I can assure you SH is better at sustained damage (mostly due to the pet) and SW better at burst.
This difference at sustained damage is not much, because SW have hunter's fervor for some more AP, and its abilities hit harder.
On the other side, the difference at burst damage is quite huge.
Even if you put aside festerbomb spec, SW have tools to deal a lot of damage in a short period of time.
VoN and Steady Aim are these tools. Steady aim is useful to make the dots crit after disengaging for example.
This is nothing like a Sorc or a BW I agree, but it is still a lot more potential burst than a SH.
If a SW ambushes me, he kill me in 4 seconds. If I ambush him as a SH, I kill him in 10.
Because the SW will detaunt the pet, so I'll loose damage output anyway.
There is only 2 things on which SH is really better than SW: Kiting (thanks to run away racial tactic and also the ability) and hunting down people (thanks to the pet).

[catholicism198]

This is beginning to sound more and more like a balance forum discussion. I believe there is a thread about that exact thing something somewhere.. and, if I recall correctly, torque has mentioned that he has "plans" for the Magus when client control is fully functional...

[Glorian]

Then why not remove the tactic to insta spawn pet; make the pet/turrent an instant cast instead of 2s by default. That frees up a tactic slot by removing what seems to be a mandatory tactic on the bar.

Engineer Lobby would support that proposal.

[dansari]

Spoiler:

Lol I love the Fester comments. Fester is not a spec considered to be good by anyone other than the people who look at paper and say.. oohhh so damage much wow (normally people that don't play SW). I don't play SH but I've been bursted by one (outside of m2) and while a SW can provide more consistent damage, a SH can provide more burst (outside of a gimmicky Fester spec that anyone above rr49 outlives). That was my point. One that can likely be validated by SH mains.

My other point is, again mainly for devil's advocate, why does a magus need to have the ability to burst? Sorc can burst from range and is the prime class to do so. SH have better burst than their "mirror" albeit by only a little. Out of all of the rdps classes destro has, does it not warrant having a supporting dps? Sure you could take a sorc instead but the same can be said for taking a BW over an engy.

Edit: I just re-read the first statement. Lol. Steady Aim. Steady Aim hasn't had a place on my hotbar since mid 2016. Lol. **** steady aim. Gtfo

I main SH.
And I can assure you SH is better at sustained damage (mostly due to the pet) and SW better at burst.
This difference at sustained damage is not much, because SW have hunter's fervor for some more AP, and its abilities hit harder.
On the other side, the difference at burst damage is quite huge.
Even if you put aside festerbomb spec, SW have tools to deal a lot of damage in a short period of time.
VoN and Steady Aim are these tools. Steady aim is useful to make the dots crit after disengaging for example.
This is nothing like a Sorc or a BW I agree, but it is still a lot more potential burst than a SH.
If a SW ambushes me, he kill me in 4 seconds. If I ambush him as a SH, I kill him in 10.
Because the SW will detaunt the pet, so I'll loose damage output anyway.
There is only 2 things on which SH is really better than SW: Kiting (thanks to run away racial tactic and also the ability) and hunting down people (thanks to the pet).

I guess we simply disagree then

[Kodama0]

The magus is way behind the enginners nowadays, Is visible by the amount of people who switched their bright wizards or SW to play enginner, to its practicality and high damages (in pug queues, is that what I play, I think we need some space too).

Perhaps to compare the burst power to engies with "Focused Fire" in single target rotation would need to decrease the cast of the "Mutating Blue Fire" from magus from 3 to 2 seconds cast, not to mention that spells have an absurd disrupt compared to dodge, which in the case would be Armor the counter.

In general changes I would remove pet the bonus of 40% bonus damage and buff their overall damage by 20/30%, this will make their less pet dependent, but pets will aways be usefull for armor/elemental resist debuff. So and make pets gives them ranged but nerf it from 140feet to 120feet, it is clear that for scenarios it is totally nom-sense - if you play aganist 4 engies you are doomed.

Unfortunately it is a class that is either too strong or too weak depending on where it is situated, aganist pugs they are gods, in organizated 6x6 or aganist premades in 12x12 they're awlful.

[peterthepan3]

But why reduce their damage? xD The 40% dmg via pet isn't an issue really.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could make the pets follow you (even if it was on a CD or something)? As cool as stationary DPS is, it doesn't really translate into a lot of environments other than keep defenses.

I agree with the above post, but if I may postulate: anything can be a god against pugs in the right hands =P

[Whitesands]

The issue revolves around the single target focus for engi and magus. When BoC and Snipe were on a 5 second cool down, both single target classes were a threat to the opposing side and viable in their role. This is no longer the case.* The original suggestion was to change the two abilities' range. It was explained this wasn't possible without client control. Azarael then moved the mastery location for both BoC and Snipe to the 13 point spot so only those committed to single target could use it. Later and despite BoC and Snipe being moved to the 13 pt. placement, both abilities then had their cool down changed to 10 seconds. As Azarael stated in the patch notes on Dec 6th 2016:



"Wasn't BoC changed to the 5 sec cooldown and moved to the 13pt spot because of the cooldown change? if we are going back to 10 sec cooldown, shouldn't be we be moving it back to the original spot?" -Azarael



Unfortunately, Azarael gave up his position before the two abilities were returned to their original mastery point locations. Previously, I put forward on the newly reopened Development Boards BoC and Snipe either be at a 5 second cool down, or returned to their old mastery placements as now it is the worst of both worlds: single target magi and engi are weak and no other mastery focus can really use either ability at all. This suggestion was rejected. No appeals are allowed as there is no oversight over what decisions or changes are made.



* If burst is decreased, then killing power is also decreased. The single target mastery is intended to be the line with the most raw killing power, concentrated against an individual. BoC/Snipe is the signature ability of the mastery line. If it is on a 10 second CD, then that impacts the entire mastery. The situations where the 5 second CD would be needed is any situation where the decision would be made about bringing a magus/engi for a RDPS role vs. a different class. If magi/engi cannot match other RDPS in burst damage, they become a marginalized. If class viability is a goal, which I think the great work of the team behind this game shows, then the single target mastery of the magus/engi needs to be able to compete in killing power with other RDPS. The 5 second BoC did this, as magi would be seen as both desirable by groups and a potential threat, instead of a simple renown piñata.

[Tesq]

want remind you all that the flamer ranger is like what 180 feet now? kind of a lot anyway you dont need to stay near pet all the time.

[Glorian]

... if you play aganist 4 engies you are doomed.

From an Order perspective:
If you have 4 engie classcannons on your side in any SC you will loose it.

And from Torquemadra:

It suffers from 'feel' more than anything, the crack of a rifle is much more satisfying than the whoosh of the magus and not everyones a fan of the disk.
Its not a weak class, can you imagine the destro whine if gunblast was undefendable and could hit 2 people? Magus gets that and its fun stuff smacking the guard tanks for 150% damageas you whale on his protected teammate
Imagine the cry if they had a 3s cd on hipshot, that it did 50% more critical damage, magus has this.
Theres nothing 'bad' about the class, not everything is going to be number 1 or the prefered choice, such is life.
Also I play a magus and if I felt it was in dire need of work Im in the unique position where I would just do it.

want remind you all that the flamer ranger is like what 180 feet now? kind of a lot anyway you dont need to stay near pet all the time.

I dont get that. You mean range till the Turret/Deamon is destroyed? That is around 200 feet.
Range for Buff increase is 30 feet.

[Penril]

IIRC, BoC/Snipe were reverted to a 10s CD because no one was using FRF/Gunblast, which should be the staple skills for their respective trees. If I were you, I would look at those skills and define if they need a slight buff (maybe tooltip damage?). That's the reason why I asked some pages ago: what is wrong with FRF?

As to why they never returned to being a 10 points skill, I believe it was to avoid certain builds. Snipe should be a ST damage beast, therefore it shouldn't have accesss to, say, Magnet:

http://www.ror.builders/career/engineer ... 77,3662&t=

Or to Napalm Grenade:

http://www.ror.builders/career/engineer ... 72,3670&t=

These kind of builds should only be available at very high renown ranks (think of a Ether Dance/Whispering Winds SM, or a Tree' Hit Combo/Down Ye Go (on live where DYG was at 14 points) Black Orc).


TL;DR: Snipe/BoC should remain at 10s CD and at 14 points. If engi/magus lack power (I think they are fine tbh) look at Gunblast/FRF and make a case for a possible change/buff.