[Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

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Rumpel
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#11 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:17 pm

These are vids are helpfull

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19822
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SilverWF
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#12 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:08 pm

Rumpel wrote:These are vids are helpfull

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19822

Yeah, if no any skills has changed since Feb...
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Darks63
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#13 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:42 pm

For a leveling Mara do you want to go up Sav first for CC and TB and then go up brute? OR would you go Brute then Sav?
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Toldavf
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#14 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:45 pm

Sav then brute.
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Darosh
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#15 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:43 am

TenTonHammer wrote:
Stickzy wrote:
TenTonHammer wrote:Told covered the spec

I like to go for str tallies

The renown spec that you NEED is futile strikes level 3 to cover for maras very high base chance to be crit


Whats the point of using 3x fs when the base ini on Mara is really low? 1 sm ini debuff on him and his chance to be crit will go sky high. Even if he went full fs with 170 ini, his chance to be crit will still reach around 30-40÷ with the fof + ini debuff.

I would spec 1 rd and full parry atleast imo. Rest is up to you.


If you want to dissmiss any "attempts" to save your self from being nuked by order becuase you run a base 20%+ chance to be crit that's on you

Yeah SM stats iniative debuff is a thing but it's 1 of 7 stats it can debuff

Additionally, atleast 70% of the order SM players run the resisits debuff dance insted for to make their targets have 0 spirit resists


So I'm feeling lucky and will take those odds


SW/Engi conq proc is a reliable 100ini debuff, which you'll see floating around literally everywhere in the lakes and scenarios.
Stickzy math is correct, the ini nets you more in the long run - however, combatting crit on destro is a really horrible task given all the various sources of crit on order... but even then, debuffed stock initiative > any kind of critstack (tactics,gear, w/e) available.

Abbd.:
Extremely rough numbers, from the top of my head:
194ini =~ 16%-19% ctbc, debuffed to 80-90ish =~ 47%-60% ctbc.
305ini =~ 12-13% ctbc, debuffed to 200ish =~ 16-19% ctbc.
FS pushes your ctbc pre-debuff close, or to 0%, but post-debuff you still sit at a not so comfy +30%ish.
(^ provided you were to dump shitloads of RR into FS and max it out; max FS 45 RR = -24% ctbc, max initiative 34RR =~ -40% ctbc [if you run really just stock initative that sits at 150-180ish across all classes, exception being kotbs with Runefang tactic as a given])

Note: Initiative gives you a tiny amount of dodge and increases your stealth detection, too. Not all that much of a profit, but still better than a blant - all things considered inefficient - and costly ctbc reduction.

I'd suggest you go about and test it with a Choppa/Slayer and the Fierceness debuff, if you want to have better numbers to reference.

Keep in mind, the initiative debuff gives everyone that attacks you, including even deftard tanks, healers yadayada a giant boost in offensive crit - turning most fluff damage into pressuring damage whilst proccing all the things that proc on crit.
FS helps you against inidividual sources of crit so to speak, 0% ctbc by virtue of FS gets you an average of 15% incoming crit from dps classes that STACK crit - if you face a premade that number can be alot higher. Consider a debuffed stock initiative to pretty much turn EVERY class you are facing into a crit-stacking one, which hurts ALOT in large scale fights ~ especially if you ride pug warbands and alike. Let alone the resource drain it puts on your healers, given they have to heal enhanced, accumulating fluff damage.

TLDR: (Solo)roam -> FS > iniatiative, everything edging on medium/large scale where you can't pick encounters properly, and that are more than likely saturated with full-conq order prdps/your occasional statsteal SM with a lucky roll -> initiative > FS.
Last edited by Darosh on Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TenTonHammer
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#16 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:21 am

Darosh wrote:
TLDR: (Solo)roam -> FS > iniatiative, every edging on medium/large scale where you can't pick encounters -> initiative > FS.


Sure sure but how realistic is it to stack iniative? its not easy to gain access to make a real and reasonable dent in % chance to be crit

The average player dosnt have enough coin to fork over for rare fortune sets


so you can grab merc/dom def set peices, 2 peice from that ToK jewel set or rvr inf rewards with some + ini stats but how much would that really help vs maras ~20% base chance to be crit
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Darosh
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#17 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:22 am

TenTonHammer wrote:
Darosh wrote:
TLDR: (Solo)roam -> FS > iniatiative, every edging on medium/large scale where you can't pick encounters -> initiative > FS.


Sure sure but how realistic is it to stack iniative? its not easy to gain access to make a real and reasonable dent in % chance to be crit

The average player dosnt have enough coin to fork over for rare fortune sets


so you can grab merc/dom def set peices, 2 peice from that ToK jewel set or rvr inf rewards with some + ini stats but how much would that really help vs maras ~20% base chance to be crit


Spoiler:
Abbd.: I am running full initiative via RR on my Slayer - gets me another advantage: being able to actively use Fierceness (the debuff part of it overrides a conq proc). Its worlds of difference to running stock initiative, and nets me more sustain than FS, given all the SHs with full conq. Hereby, note: there is not much difference between spending 30RR on FS or 34RR on initiative, other than the effects - initiative still reduces your pre-debuff ctbc by 5-6%.

Running into Teefz with stock initiative is an absolute death sentence, there is no coming back from that - even with guard and detaunt, and all that jaz.

You are looking at an almost 100% ctbc (= rather incoming crit in general, attacker crit + ctbc) if you face BiS prdps that know how to time their burst with ini debuff procs or their stock ability debuff.

You really have to differentiate between the (solo)roam/pugging side of things and the premade side of things, you can survive pug scs and alike with 0% ctbc by virtue of FS and do good in a 6man ~ whilst, again, farming pugs ~, but you'll do horribly the moment you face people that time their stuff and build their compositions to utilize the initiative situation, or even in pug scs if its saturated with conq prdps.
In other words: FS does quite literally nothing against premades running full conq prdps, or in large scale fights as mentioned above - a random full conq pug can devestate a premade running stock initative if he gets the initiatve debuff to proc on two, let alone all members of the group, while they bash the heads of pugs in. Iirc the conq proc isn't cleansable, but I might be wrong there, even if it is cleansable... in large engagements it'll be masked by a thousand debuffs or just reapplied a second later by virtue of a lucky roll.

If its a 6v6 you are looking at, it depends on what setup you face - if its something without initiative debuff, then ofc FS is superior, but a controlled engagement like that you'll only find once in a blue moon or as a thing agreed upon in advance.

The reason WH/WE hit that hard on squishies is - in most cases - the initiative debuff + stock initiative on targets. You'll see WH/WE only occasionally - if the situation really demands it, and if they have a spare GCD - swap it out for the outgoing*HD.


TLDR:
300initiative is the sweetspot - with that value you prevent the exponential nature of initiative kicking in, everything above 350 is fancy but likely an overkill all things considered; if you can count on a RP/IB/zeal ini buff you'll just need to invest into 50-100ish initiative (depending on stock value/fluff on gear) and don't even have to run a full stack like I do.
The other 50ish inititaive you'll easily get through RR/fluff ini on gear. If you can count on these buffs you can run both, a minor invested initiative stack AND a minor/medium FS stack, you just gotta watch out for strips and have the buffs reapplied asap.

If you are out for ctbc reduction, you should think about opting for Dominator gear and alike that provides a static reduction, and stack initiative through RR instead of FS; I am sitting on 8% ctbc right now, with the above [max, I no haz pocket IB/RP :(] initiative stack and just some random ctbc reduction on 1-2 pieces of gear, that I didn't opt for because of it ~ If I were to run full dominator/a mix-and-match or alike, I'd too be sitting at or close to 0% ctbc without stacking FS.

TLDR of the TLDR:
FS without initiative is useless in 9/10 cases, and steadily loses its potency given more and more prdps get access to conq gear. Monstro Maras/Sorcs/Blorcs/SMs/WH/WE/occasional mdps WP and their stock debuffs not even taken into account.

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kindred4080
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Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#18 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:51 am

I have just one question from fellow marauders.
Tell me pls, how can i kill White Lion in 1v1, especially those who use guardian build with unstoppable *****?

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tionblack
Posts: 151

Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#19 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:11 pm

I think you will regret having low parry with the amount of ''parry requiring'' skills you got.You have no knockdown unless you go aoe spec so to make up for that that disarm is too good i honestly beleive.And yeah i have sen this issue on marauders they are like potatoes %20+ chance to be critted ? LoL i suggest 220 initiative and minimum 2 futile strikes.

No matter what critical skills order has giving up stacking initiative or futile strikes is a mistake cause lets say a witch hunter has 25 crit chance and if you have 15 chance to be critted he hits you with %40 crit plus KOBS % 10 crit damage makes % 50 and beleive me you dont want that.

From my limited experience i see marauders weakness is his low base initiative levels and if not fixed more white lions will be killing you in 3 hits :) Or a barbeque fest with BWs

Aim a base amount of stats go for it.For example you dont need rare fortune to have high initiative you can use initiative talismans to get it to 220ish .People have wrong mindset about using archetypes BASIC stat on talisman slots all the time nah its about balancing stats with of course main stat being priority unless you have an obvious weakness like marauders initiative.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3067

Re: [Marauder] Noob Mara Questions

Post#20 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:39 pm

kindred4080 wrote:I have just one question from fellow marauders.
Tell me pls, how can i kill White Lion in 1v1, especially those who use guardian build with unstoppable *****?

i dont think its realistically possible to, not unless you have a clear gear/level advantage

otherwise you cant really out dps maras initial burst and even if you do the mara can just run away and kite you with perma snare
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