[Chosen] Auras

[Darsil]

Hi,

I read on some other topics that the current "passive" aura system may change in the future?

I played a Chosen on live, but I swapped to another toon, because I hated the live system for aura : the only thing I did was to swap from an aura to another one an so on, it was so boring and annoying...

I love the current system, because I can actually focus on the important stuff, like switching guards, taunt, etc, but if you devs are planning to take back the ancient aura system, I'll definitely not playing a Chosen (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one). So as I don't want to spend a lot of time to lvl up a toon to R40, just to abandon it after that, I wanted to know what exactly are you planning for the aura system?

BTW, why do you want to change it? Is that because of complains (from non-chosen/kotbs players ofc) that it is OP or something? As the chosen/kotbs are doing the less damage output, I think it's ok if they got something to balance this, like that passive aura system, don't you think? But if it's that OP, maybe just reduce the amount of resist/strenght/toughness etc...from the auras?

But PLEASE, let these auras passive !

[TenTonHammer]

Chosen and KOTBS have been for the longest time the alpha tanks in the game, mandatory in every party due to the power of how strong their auras are, especially resists aura

even on live their mechanic was hilariously simple to use, even on live twister addon made it a joke and provides too much reward for too little effort.

Lastly having a faction class wanted 100% of the time for its archetypal role is serious issue that should be addressed

Passive 100% uptime buff and debuff auras that are more effective than a large number of respectively similar abilities that affect those same stats, render them non-desirable

[Coma]

the reason for the "change to be" is the same (or rahte even more intensive) as the change to BW/sorc that is currently under discussion... that is the fact that the class mechanic is completely passive... something that you activate once and than let it be on his own without caring about it anymore... for BW/sorc is the fact that they simple get to 100 comb/DM and don't have a reson to drop it (self damage being marginal in wb enviorment) and no GOOD REASON to actualy spend it... for Kobts/Chosen it is even worse... you actualy activate your auras when you log in (at worst when you zone) and let them be... you even risk forgetting about them and go around with your auras off if you don't notice they got removed from a zoning ^^' (that is how active this new version of the class mechanic is...).

You said that the new sys let you play with what is more important... but the buff/debuff from auras is what makes chosen/kotbs king of RvR tanking right now... all tank can taunt, push, root, cc and so on... but no other tank can give as many party buff/debuff as chosen/kotbs and that is without even having to think or doing anything ^^'... if other tank want to give their party buff they AT THE VERY LEAST need to hit a target with a specific skill... if the skill get defended or they can't time their hit than it may end up being wasted, you on the other end just need to stroll around and AUTOMATICALY every party member within 100ft will get all the buff and all enemy will get the debuff.

What's more compared to live aura here STACK that is to say 2 kotbs/chosen with str or tough aura actualy give double the bonus... and that is once again without doing a thing on their own... just from existing ^^'

PS: about the "complaining" if there was (and probably there was) it was more likely about either the staking or the numerical value... i seriously doubt someone complained about the mechanic... just like with BW/Sorc... people complain about their damage output... not about the fact that they stay at 100 comb all time people that simply "complain" ask about damage nerf not about mechanic change.. that is because mechanic change aren't always the same as nerf...

[th3gatekeeper]

Hi,

I read on some other topics that the current "passive" aura system may change in the future?

I played a Chosen on live, but I swapped to another toon, because I hated the live system for aura : the only thing I did was to swap from an aura to another one an so on, it was so boring and annoying...

I love the current system, because I can actually focus on the important stuff, like switching guards, taunt, etc, but if you devs are planning to take back the ancient aura system, I'll definitely not playing a Chosen (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one). So as I don't want to spend a lot of time to lvl up a toon to R40, just to abandon it after that, I wanted to know what exactly are you planning for the aura system?

BTW, why do you want to change it? Is that because of complains (from non-chosen/kotbs players ofc) that it is OP or something? As the chosen/kotbs are doing the less damage output, I think it's ok if they got something to balance this, like that passive aura system, don't you think? But if it's that OP, maybe just reduce the amount of resist/strenght/toughness etc...from the auras?

But PLEASE, let these auras passive !

Thanks for posting mate! I completely agree with "twisting" on Live. I didnt play Live that much, but when I did, I played Chosen and I LOATHED twisting... Absolutely hated it. The reason I even considered Knight/Chosen in ROR was because they removed it.

So I am 100% onboard with you.

As TenTon pointed out though, they are too good and ALSO have a mechanic that requires zero "management" whatsoever. So they went from one end of the spectrum (having to twist auras every few seconds) to the complete OPPOSITE end of the spectrum where its just super boring, easy, and not fun.

So I think there is a middle ground and I KNOW they are working on some solutions. I do NOT speak for any DEV team but merely as a player I have long theorized the possible options for this without making it too much like twisting, and without making it too boring. The brief solutions I have come up with are things like this:

- Aura benefits accrue over time in combat. If your aura gives 75 Strength, maybe it gives 0 outside of combat and BUILDS by 5 for each second in combat up to the max. Meaning you have to keep attacking or get attacked to stay in combat to keep benefits up.

- Accrue v 2.0. You always have "HALF" the benefits. Same as above. Gains X amount during combat up to the cap. etc.

- Aura Chance on Attack: You select up to 3 auras which each have a 25% chance to "proc" off any attack in combat. (This was shot down to being too similar to SM/BO system).

- My Personal Favorite: You select up to 3 auras which have 100% proc rate off any attack OF THE SAME TREE. So inorder to proc "Discodant Instability" (resist buff/debuff) you have to USE an ability from Discord Path (such as Ravage). It procs for 8 seconds, etc. So now "twisting" isnt so much "twisting auras" as it is now "twisting" a rotation that uses abilities from EACH PATH to keep the auras up.


The OTHER issue with auras is that they are AOE buffs and AOE debuffs. I think maybe the nerf bat needs to come, so that they are single target DEBUFFS and maybe retain the AOE - Party benefits.

So in my FAVORITE recommendation - they would proc and only DEBUFF the enemies hit with the ability. So AOE attacks now would also proc an AOE debuff - which again adds even more "management" to the mechanic.

So things like Blast Wave would not only be used for a Wounds debuff (aoe) but ALSO to debuff resists (aoe) and you could then use Ravage on an opponent to "refresh" Discordant Instability on that target.

Again, these are all just ideas though... I know SOMETHING will happen, its just a matter of WHAT and WHEN is the question.

[Darsil]

Thanks for that answers guys, it's very interesting !

Well, I have to say I agree with what you all said, I think I didn't see the whole picture enough with that aura managment, especially when we compare to the other tanks.

And as I said, I'm ok with a kotbs/chosen nerf, as long as the devs don't bring back the live aura system, I'm up for everything else.

Actually i'm in love with your "personal favorite" system th3gatekeeper, looks like a very good compromise between the old system and the current one.

The thing is, I'm afraid to lvl up my chosen because as you said : "something's coming, but we don't know what"...

[Coma]

teh gatekeeper has probably hit the nail...
for a mechanic to be active it need to be bound to actively used skill...

for a mechanic to be fun you have to use it while PLAYING the character... and not simply play the mechanic all the time without having the time to use the rest of the character...

balancing the two is where things get difficult, the idea of associating auras to other skills is quite resonable (the 25% chance on hit would be the most resonable but as you said it will just turn into a copy/paste of SM/BO)

as for the too much powerfull AoE debuff... the word AURA doesn't really fit with a single target effect... I'd rather have their debuff balanced with it being AoE... this would also give space for other tank tha have stronger single target debuff..

but well al this is just speculating... let's wait for the dev to unvail what their project is or for them to actualy ask for proposal (like they did for BW/Sorc)

[Nefarian78]

I'm not an expert on Chosens, but wouldn't be better for balance in general to lock them to use only 1 aura at a time? Similiar to old WoW paladins.

In exchange the Auras could be reworked to have more unique effects. Or simply made stronger if needed.

[wargrimnir]

They will likely become active abilities with different uses based on your target and buff/debuff uses. The following are examples, not set in stone, as we need client control to make sure we can build these properly.

Ranges on these will be taking a significant hit, probably 30' range to apply, and 30' radius on the target. Duration of the buff/debuffs might be extended in exchange for being able to cleanse/shatter/sever the effects.

Heal debuff and cast time build-up auras for example are only effective on an offensive target anyway, so they will likely be something you place on an enemy which radiates from them.

TGH/Resist/STR auras would be offensive/defensive AOE's, so you can choose a defensive target and apply the buffs, or an offensive target and apply the debuffs.

Damage and Backlash auras would be PBAOE, and apply the debuff to all players hit. Similar in range/cone to Challenge.

Heal and AP auras would be similar to live, where you apply it on yourself and affect allies/enemies near you.

Well, maybe it's not such a rough draft, but that's the general idea for making them more active and skillful in use.

[footpatrol2]

The mechanic is actually very complex. The issue comes with only running 1 knight/chosen in a group. If you have 2 knights or chosen's in a group it allows you to start switching aura's to your situational aura's which makes the mechanic a lot more complex.

In addition to this if your using two different spec knight's/chosen's your maximizing the benefits of your aura's/abilities better with 15 point builds then going for a solo hybrid build built to play with a different race's benefits.

If you would like to know more about this stuff I wrote a detailed article specifically focusing on Aura tanks located on this thread here:
Two Chosen's
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21708

[biotek]

...

- Accrue v 2.0. You always have "HALF" the benefits. Same as above. Gains X amount during combat up to the cap. etc.

...

- My Personal Favorite: You select up to 3 auras which have 100% proc rate off any attack OF THE SAME TREE. So inorder to proc "Discodant Instability" (resist buff/debuff) you have to USE an ability from Discord Path (such as Ravage). It procs for 8 seconds, etc. So now "twisting" isnt so much "twisting auras" as it is now "twisting" a rotation that uses abilities from EACH PATH to keep the auras up.

I really like these two ideas. It still maintains the aura concept while giving something different to work with.
The twisting probably wouldn't have been so bad if it didn't needed constant management. Sure, mods made it trivial, but we don't want that either.

The first major problem, in my opinion, is stacking auras. Only the strongest of any specific aura should have any effect and the icons for the weaker versions shouldn't show as buffs/debuffs.

I'm not a fan of the system on the drawing board at the moment. It doesn't match up with the class concept and it completely changes positional requirements, etc. of the chosen or kotbs and their groups.

Another possible solution is to make auras temporary. Each activation creates an aura that lasts 15+ seconds, or something along those lines. I'd still maintain the 3 at a time maximum though. If a fourth is activated the first is dispelled, and so on. The result is similar to twisting but with longer durations and required participation to maintains auras.