Magus damage question?

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roadkillrobin
Posts: 2667

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#11 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:02 am

Sulorie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:02 am
Arteker616 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:37 am

Only clas wich doesnt have any problem at all to play with dot preasure is likely the Dps AM.
How you come to this conclusion?
Coz AM have the option to gets loads of striketrough from tactics.
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lefze
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Posts: 861

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#12 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:16 am

Sedok wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 pm
MedV wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:59 pm
Do these changes hurt the Magus class as a whole.
Close to rendering it useless. I made a post awhile back defending the Disrupt changes as not being nearly as bad as players were claiming at the time, but I've had to retract that sentiment after more play time with the Magus and other magical rdps. It severely nerfs magical dps overall, but two thins standout for the Magus in particular:

- Three DoTs of your main AoE pressure rotation are "cast on a target and all other targets within X feet" (Glean Magic, Pandemonium and Seed of Chaos), meaning if the first target disrupts it, the entire spell is disrupted. Constantly wasting GCDs to get these on a target wastes valuable time in an already long rotation. Its especially a problem with Pandemonium (the workhorse), as it costs 45 AP and has a 5 second cooldown. If you do not successfully apply it the first time, you hit like a slight breeze, the entire rotation is messed up, and you have to eat up even more AP trying reapply it.

- The entire concept of "AoE pressure" for both the Engineer and Magus is reliant upon a steady stream of multiple DoT ticks, but since now both application and ticks can be disrupted, the entire concept is rendered moot. A Sorc/BW can get a hit through and have it still deal significant damage via the critical hit damage of their mechanic; the Magus is reliant upon all of those ticks, but even in a pug situation, its very common for even half your ticks to not get through. Add in dealing with an the AoE cleanse on the class most difficult for you to kill, and it gets very frustrating to say the least.
What if I told you the dots are only the tip of the iceberg? Especially the targeted dots are just a debuff and something to cover it up with, there is so much else in their kit that can put out pretty damn good AoE pressure that isn't even targeted. And with increased AoE cap and superior range it can be devastating.
Rip Phalanx

Sulorie
Posts: 3865

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#13 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:33 am

roadkillrobin wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:02 am
Sulorie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:02 am
Arteker616 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:37 am

Only clas wich doesnt have any problem at all to play with dot preasure is likely the Dps AM.
How you come to this conclusion?
Coz AM have the option to gets loads of striketrough from tactics.
There are 2 tactics, yes, but you have no unlimited tactic slots nor mastery points.
Dying is no option.

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Renork
Posts: 1212

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#14 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:30 am

lefze wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:16 am
Sedok wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 pm
MedV wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:59 pm
Do these changes hurt the Magus class as a whole.
Close to rendering it useless. I made a post awhile back defending the Disrupt changes as not being nearly as bad as players were claiming at the time, but I've had to retract that sentiment after more play time with the Magus and other magical rdps. It severely nerfs magical dps overall, but two thins standout for the Magus in particular:

- Three DoTs of your main AoE pressure rotation are "cast on a target and all other targets within X feet" (Glean Magic, Pandemonium and Seed of Chaos), meaning if the first target disrupts it, the entire spell is disrupted. Constantly wasting GCDs to get these on a target wastes valuable time in an already long rotation. Its especially a problem with Pandemonium (the workhorse), as it costs 45 AP and has a 5 second cooldown. If you do not successfully apply it the first time, you hit like a slight breeze, the entire rotation is messed up, and you have to eat up even more AP trying reapply it.

- The entire concept of "AoE pressure" for both the Engineer and Magus is reliant upon a steady stream of multiple DoT ticks, but since now both application and ticks can be disrupted, the entire concept is rendered moot. A Sorc/BW can get a hit through and have it still deal significant damage via the critical hit damage of their mechanic; the Magus is reliant upon all of those ticks, but even in a pug situation, its very common for even half your ticks to not get through. Add in dealing with an the AoE cleanse on the class most difficult for you to kill, and it gets very frustrating to say the least.
What if I told you the dots are only the tip of the iceberg? Especially the targeted dots are just a debuff and something to cover it up with, there is so much else in their kit that can put out pretty damn good AoE pressure that isn't even targeted. And with increased AoE cap and superior range it can be devastating.
Lmao, I havent commented on any of your responses (dat “1v1” build from an earlier thread, haha) regarding the magus class but this one is definitely LOL worthy. Keep it sunshine.

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lefze
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Posts: 861

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#15 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:34 am

Renork wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:30 am
lefze wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:16 am
Sedok wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 pm


Close to rendering it useless. I made a post awhile back defending the Disrupt changes as not being nearly as bad as players were claiming at the time, but I've had to retract that sentiment after more play time with the Magus and other magical rdps. It severely nerfs magical dps overall, but two thins standout for the Magus in particular:

- Three DoTs of your main AoE pressure rotation are "cast on a target and all other targets within X feet" (Glean Magic, Pandemonium and Seed of Chaos), meaning if the first target disrupts it, the entire spell is disrupted. Constantly wasting GCDs to get these on a target wastes valuable time in an already long rotation. Its especially a problem with Pandemonium (the workhorse), as it costs 45 AP and has a 5 second cooldown. If you do not successfully apply it the first time, you hit like a slight breeze, the entire rotation is messed up, and you have to eat up even more AP trying reapply it.

- The entire concept of "AoE pressure" for both the Engineer and Magus is reliant upon a steady stream of multiple DoT ticks, but since now both application and ticks can be disrupted, the entire concept is rendered moot. A Sorc/BW can get a hit through and have it still deal significant damage via the critical hit damage of their mechanic; the Magus is reliant upon all of those ticks, but even in a pug situation, its very common for even half your ticks to not get through. Add in dealing with an the AoE cleanse on the class most difficult for you to kill, and it gets very frustrating to say the least.
What if I told you the dots are only the tip of the iceberg? Especially the targeted dots are just a debuff and something to cover it up with, there is so much else in their kit that can put out pretty damn good AoE pressure that isn't even targeted. And with increased AoE cap and superior range it can be devastating.
Lmao, I havent commented on any of your responses (dat “1v1” build from an earlier thread, haha) regarding the magus class but this one is definitely LOL worthy. Keep it sunshine.
Not 1v1 builds at all, soloing is so much more than going full deftard to kill that one guy. Notice how "leeching" was pretty much the main thing there?

As for the rest of it which you find so hilarious, I've played all the "decent" dps on both sides except slayer in actual bomb warbands, and I can tell you magus has damage almost on par with BW, but doesn't suffer from the hell of having 30ft effective range. Just sucks that it suffers from a few bugs, but if AT/Warpfire ever get fixed, the burst you can put out at 40ish feet is gonna be huge. And the fact that no one plays it for anything but rifting and leeching with firestorm is on them, the class has so much more potential. But it requires a good warband, and while a bit unpractical it is completely doable.
Rip Phalanx

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6307

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#16 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am

I, too, have noticed some high RR Magi raking in the kills by doing nothing but spamming Firestorm. One particular Magus just uses Mist and Firestorm, rinse-repeat.

Lots of potential with the class, but unfortunately most prefer to spam DoTs, stand away from their pet, and then wonder why nothing dies.
#MakeSCGreatAgain
#SCToo

User avatar
Renork
Posts: 1212

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#17 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 pm

lefze wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:34 am
Renork wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:30 am
lefze wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:16 am


What if I told you the dots are only the tip of the iceberg? Especially the targeted dots are just a debuff and something to cover it up with, there is so much else in their kit that can put out pretty damn good AoE pressure that isn't even targeted. And with increased AoE cap and superior range it can be devastating.
Lmao, I havent commented on any of your responses (dat “1v1” build from an earlier thread, haha) regarding the magus class but this one is definitely LOL worthy. Keep it sunshine.
Not 1v1 builds at all, soloing is so much more than going full deftard to kill that one guy. Notice how "leeching" was pretty much the main thing there?

As for the rest of it which you find so hilarious, I've played all the "decent" dps on both sides except slayer in actual bomb warbands, and I can tell you magus has damage almost on par with BW, but doesn't suffer from the hell of having 30ft effective range. Just sucks that it suffers from a few bugs, but if AT/Warpfire ever get fixed, the burst you can put out at 40ish feet is gonna be huge. And the fact that no one plays it for anything but rifting and leeching with firestorm is on them, the class has so much more potential. But it requires a good warband, and while a bit unpractical it is completely doable.
Cool, looking forward to seeing you showcase your skillz. When is your video of "how to play a magus" coming out? I want to subzkribe~

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Renork
Posts: 1212

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#18 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
I, too, have noticed some high RR Magi raking in the kills by doing nothing but spamming Firestorm. One particular Magus just uses Mist and Firestorm, rinse-repeat.

Lots of potential with the class, but unfortunately most prefer to spam DoTs, stand away from their pet, and then wonder why nothing dies.
I mean, in a zergy situation you can't really blame that magus for trying to leech as much rp as possible. Taking down targets in warband play is difficult if no one is assisting you, so he's just being efficient. What's the cap crit one can achieve here? 32%? Not high enough to guarantee reliable crits on the class (compared to live). The damage is good, but there are some classes you simply cannot touch (disrupt strikethrough passive rr ability similar to crit would be nice)

Arteker616
Posts: 410

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#19 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:14 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:02 am
Arteker616 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:37 am

Only clas wich doesnt have any problem at all to play with dot preasure is likely the Dps AM.
How you come to this conclusion?
I Got a AM, i do run it on 2 Flavours , first standard healer pumper for engi. the second is a Tank dps support buddy.

For most part on the second one, i run the double strike trough tactic. It pays off, the target gotta be one of these fulll wp (rare) or a deff tank(wich im not going to bother to cast at all) to have much of a problem.

And gotta say this as someone with a shaman, bw , sorc ,magus, u notice how easy is to land dots with the am.

Arteker616
Posts: 410

Re: Magus damage question?

Post#20 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:17 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:37 am
I, too, have noticed some high RR Magi raking in the kills by doing nothing but spamming Firestorm. One particular Magus just uses Mist and Firestorm, rinse-repeat.

Lots of potential with the class, but unfortunately most prefer to spam DoTs, stand away from their pet, and then wonder why nothing dies.
Did you run out incident lately with the close quarter brawl spec lately? i havent seen anyone using it lately since the nerf(poor mucteb) wonder if it still is viable.

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