Return of Reckoning

So I have pretty good(inv/vanq combo), using 23str gems with subjugator weapons along with fof+gi+pb tactics but my attacks don't seem to hit for much compared to other classes like WLs. Is there something more I can be doing or that I could change?

i feel the same way after a period of not playing my mara. Seems off

It seems like you more or less have BiS so outside of bad play like you not lairing debuffs like cutting claw properly or beating on deftard tanks I don’t think “dmg output” should be an issue with the gear you have

But rather I think the problem is that you comparing the dps output of Mara to a busted stupidly designed class like Wl, who is all about frontloaded burst dps in small scale hand waved as acceptable by its lack of presence in large scale fights/ lack of “tools” for warband play

5conq+2ruin+subj-n-smugg+2genesis here. hitting soft targets like ams\bws\sws for 900per aa crit seems ok. as for wls and wps - 700, great? And you know, mara using 2 weapons and other mechanics from wl. ex: main aa crit - 700, offhand crit for 500, sum=1200. Wl crit for 1200 with one and only aa. Try to increase ur class understanding #rormath

rorness wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:22 am So I have pretty good(inv/vanq combo), using 23str gems with subjugator weapons along with fof+gi+pb tactics but my attacks don't seem to hit for much compared to other classes like WLs. Is there something more I can be doing or that I could change?

What’s your spec,and gear ?

rorness wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:22 am So I have pretty good(inv/vanq combo), using 23str gems with subjugator weapons along with fof+gi+pb tactics but my attacks don't seem to hit for much compared to other classes like WLs. Is there something more I can be doing or that I could change?

You shouldn’t compare Mara with wl though they are pretty mirror classes.
Wl is a easy class with a stupid front loaded burst.
Mara is a bit more hardest to play, we can say Mara is a “delay “ dps.
If I can give you some advice I’d say use always TB ( even if it has been nerfed 3 TIMES with no any reasons ) first on your rotations then you can apply armor debuff/heal debuff then switch to brut for burst/secure the kill.
Don’t forget about your enemy tools like bw cleanse am absorb m1 or dps melee morale 1 dodge/parry.
Try to hit your target always from back.
Invader isn’t a good set for Mara. Vanq/sentinel is way better or if you have a good grp/guild you can go for bloodlord/sentinel ( from sentinel helm+ ring )
Max crit/anti crit is the only thing you need on Mara.
Don’t use in your rotation draining swipe/corruption or convulsive slashing.
Best tactics are : Piercing byte / growing instability / FoF / your option between deadly clutch- brute force - flanking - impale ( works good in premade only )
Ps : use rend to cover your debuffs. It helps a lot.
And I hope devs takes seriously the reason to adjust sava/brut build. It needs.

thats right, you shouldnt compare mara to wl. compare it to ranged sw and feel the superiority run through your veigns

larsulu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:07 am Don’t use in your rotation draining swipe/corruption or convulsive slashing.

On the side note, while not having a mara, from experience on other toons- with high enough in Savagery for TB, Corruption should debuff toughness by 110 or so- should give quite a noticeable dmg boost (equal to you having 110 extra strength).

Edit: and to speak of, out of curiosity, what is the standard Sav/Brut rotation? Want to play a bit with the builder, to see what I can came up with.

Thankyouforlistening wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:39 pm

Spoiler:

Zxul wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:44 pm

larsulu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:07 am Don’t use in your rotation draining swipe/corruption or convulsive slashing.

On the side note, while not having a mara, from experience on other toons- with high enough in Savagery for TB, Corruption should debuff toughness by 110 or so- should give quite a noticeable dmg boost (equal to you having 110 extra strength).

Edit: and to speak of, out of curiosity, what is the standard Sav/Brut rotation? Want to play a bit with the builder, to see what I can came up with.

There are too many toughness debuffs floating about for any single one of them to matter.
In 9/10 cases, outside of super small scale, your target will already be affected by an ability based toughness debuff, the other 1/10 will see you spend gcds for more important things.

That is not saying that it couldn't be used to mask other debuffs, but that's not a terribly unique trait either. I can't recall its AP Cost, but it won't be particularly efficient in that regard either.

Ap cost is 25, pretty cheap.

As for toughness debuff, depends. OP is speaking about Sav/Brut spec, so it already means small scale. Destro side, choppa/mara/dok/we/shaman have a single target toughness debuffs, and bo/shaman/chosen aoe ones. Out of those, dok is likely to be a healer, shaman not sure how many actually use the aoe ability, on chosen I would really rather run a more useful aura, and bo is quite likely to run a bellow which triggers off ranged. So it leaves choppa/ single target shaman/ we- depending on who is in team/around, adding it to the rotation might add a nice extra dmg.

Thankyouforlistening wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:39 pm

Zxul wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:44 pm

larsulu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:07 am Don’t use in your rotation draining swipe/corruption or convulsive slashing.

On the side note, while not having a mara, from experience on other toons- with high enough in Savagery for TB, Corruption should debuff toughness by 110 or so- should give quite a noticeable dmg boost (equal to you having 110 extra strength).

Edit: and to speak of, out of curiosity, what is the standard Sav/Brut rotation? Want to play a bit with the builder, to see what I can came up with.

There are too many toughness debuffs floating about for any single one of them to matter.
In 9/10 cases, outside of super small scale, your target will already be affected by an ability based toughness debuff, the other 1/10 will see you spend gcds for more important things.

That is not saying that it couldn't be used to mask other debuffs, but that's not a terribly unique trait either. I can't recall its AP Cost, but it won't be particularly efficient in that regard either.

As thankyouforlistening said destro has lots of thougness debuff and you need to maximize your burst with the Mara.
So you need to safe your gcd for better abilities.
Corruption/draining swipe could work in small man/duo/trio in few situations.
My sava/brut rotations is : thunderous blows, cutting claw
, tainted claw switch into brut pulverize ( if the target is melee ) spam Impale then guillottine.
As I said you could use sometimes rend ( not 3 stacks ) to cover your debuff.