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Your thoughts about Mara

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Allbback
Posts: 17

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#81 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 pm

i have so long time have not using monstro spec in solo recently, what my feeling is monstro trigger lower 25% now , i always fighting in a duel and no trig the 1032heal(5s) until the end fight , so i just switch back to savagery spec + brut .....and i still hope thunderblow can back to 6 skill point and monstro can trigger more correctly ,because 25% is high, i m feeling it lower 15% chance now....and now mara's situation is his damage restricted by PB tactic ,if mara dont put that tactic ,the damage will become scratch damage, so this is why some of old time mara saying mara's mobility is really lack, because u need put this tactic 100%,and u cant really using others good (useful)tactic ,and even some of old mara haven't play mara anymore , and they whisper me 'dont play mara in ror' (this is the truth form behind),
and people always say mara doing crazy aoe dmg in city , form my thought is ..... if any Mdps u want do high aoe and top Mdps in city fight, i can tell u ,the only thing u need to do is find a good angle and hit most of your enemy(order or destro) ,and always keep your position is safe dont die ,until end of city fight u press Tab, u will see u are the top Mdps, i think this is not really hard, on the other side ......it means high aoe damage mean nothing.....what i want tell people is ....dont just say mara doing high aoe dps and need nerf , because high aoe dps mean nothing, and as a long time mara player ...i hope PB tactic can work on more others skill too , then mara can do more mutation switch in a fight , it will not restrict mara only using savagery + brut anymore , and it has more skill , tactic combine(combo)....
sincerely hopping mara become better mobillity :D

Aabcd 85 mara

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Mergrim
Posts: 67

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#82 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:24 pm

Allbback wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 pm
i have so long time have not using monstro spec in solo recently, what my feeling is monstro trigger lower 25% now , i always fighting in a duel and no trig the 1032heal(5s) until the end fight , so i just switch back to savagery spec + brut .....and i still hope thunderblow can back to 6 skill point and monstro can trigger more correctly ,because 25% is high, i m feeling it lower 15% chance now....and now mara's situation is his damage restricted by PB tactic ,if mara dont put that tactic ,the damage will become scratch damage, so this is why some of old time mara saying mara's mobility is really lack, because u need put this tactic 100%,and u cant really using others good (useful)tactic ,and even some of old mara haven't play mara anymore , and they whisper me 'dont play mara in ror' (this is the truth form behind),
and people always say mara doing crazy aoe dmg in city , form my thought is ..... if any Mdps u want do high aoe and top Mdps in city fight, i can tell u ,the only thing u need to do is find a good angle and hit most of your enemy(order or destro) ,and always keep your position is safe dont die ,until end of city fight u press Tab, u will see u are the top Mdps, i think this is not really hard, on the other side ......it means high aoe damage mean nothing.....what i want tell people is ....dont just say mara doing high aoe dps and need nerf , because high aoe dps mean nothing, and as a long time mara player ...i hope PB tactic can work on more others skill too , then mara can do more mutation switch in a fight , it will not restrict mara only using savagery + brut anymore , and it has more skill , tactic combine(combo)....
sincerely hopping mara become better mobillity :D

Aabcd 85 mara

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The problem is that when you play mara you don't care about positioning. Same with WL which hits everything in the circle. Both of these classes require no game skill, spam 2 buttons and done highest dmg on city.
If there is problem with PB tactic lets remove it, add him and WL 120str/120ws(-120tog) tactic. So 700ws from pb or 120/120(-120)?

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Stophy22
Posts: 367

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#83 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:18 pm

Spoiler:
Sundowner wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 am
Stophy22 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 am
All classes have give and take, Mara has some neat tricks. I think people forget when any of them make these, "complain" threads is that all the classes have unique roles, strengths, and abilities. And this should be the #1 important factoid to consider when looking at specific classes and thinking, "this needs change."

any Melee DPS or Ranged DPS is capable of, including the direct mirror WL, which can grab the same channel and spam the same "demo", gets the same 50% inc in crits, gets the same 20%damage buff and if you want to argue he can't have a pet then can slot loner/flanking which mara typically won't slot flanking or shouldn't give up a tactic slot for it because it would be a decrease in damage, so kudos WL. In this scenario of warband play any and all dps should be guarded. This is where all dps get their survivability. Not the ability to shrug off armor.
Kinda very wrong there. WL 50% crit increase tactic is tied to the pet and pet is useless in city. Loner gives 25% outgoing dmg increase, but 50% crit increase is much preferred. 25% dmg buff for WL works only from sides or back, while mara's is flat increase (literally don't know why devs haven't change that yet), mara has 20% crit chance increase (mirrored to SW), which also helps with aoe burst. As for utility, WL only has 15ft interrupt around him, while mara has 40ft cone shaped, which is far better. Maras has WS and ini debuff too. You see, due to the this WL and Mara are not direct mirrors. Some would even say aoe mara is much better than aoe wl. and I haven't even mentioned monstro proc, which is very strong and should not be downplayed
Weird I addressed this exact response in the main post, haha I knew some people would get mad ;)
Yes you don't get to mimic 1 for 1 what the opposing class can do, instead you get your own unique tools or tactics to experiment with. Mara has to slot pb, growing insta, and feeding on fear. Leaving him one situational tactic slow which if you go monstro you typically take subvert strength to keep up with demo spam, only if you have a zealot and restor motive or generous ap pump would you take something else. WL's can play with the 50% crit tactic, they can also decided to go without a pet, the only real tactic they need to copy this is top left tree tactic which applies 50% armor pen to slashing blade and spin 2 win and decreases AP. Echoing roar is to Wave of mutation and mouth of Tzeetch, Tearing blade is also akin to wave of mutation. To give an analogy WL is a mallet and Mara is a hammer and you're complaining that you can't pound a nail. Saying your class is not a direct mirror because instead of a cone you have aoe interrupt and instead of a WS/ini debuff you have Dot attached to aoe interrupt the mirror to demo strike is a lil too much a stretch that I think you've pulled your back muscles. Monstro proc is pretty good but it doesn't do anything a healer or a guard wouldn't do, quit being dramatic.
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Kuro Mara R7x
Bunji DoK R6x
Kurodon BG R8x
Archea Chosen R6x

Mergrim
Posts: 67

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#84 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm

Stophy22 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:18 pm
Spoiler:
Sundowner wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 am
Stophy22 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 am
All classes have give and take, Mara has some neat tricks. I think people forget when any of them make these, "complain" threads is that all the classes have unique roles, strengths, and abilities. And this should be the #1 important factoid to consider when looking at specific classes and thinking, "this needs change."

any Melee DPS or Ranged DPS is capable of, including the direct mirror WL, which can grab the same channel and spam the same "demo", gets the same 50% inc in crits, gets the same 20%damage buff and if you want to argue he can't have a pet then can slot loner/flanking which mara typically won't slot flanking or shouldn't give up a tactic slot for it because it would be a decrease in damage, so kudos WL. In this scenario of warband play any and all dps should be guarded. This is where all dps get their survivability. Not the ability to shrug off armor.
Kinda very wrong there. WL 50% crit increase tactic is tied to the pet and pet is useless in city. Loner gives 25% outgoing dmg increase, but 50% crit increase is much preferred. 25% dmg buff for WL works only from sides or back, while mara's is flat increase (literally don't know why devs haven't change that yet), mara has 20% crit chance increase (mirrored to SW), which also helps with aoe burst. As for utility, WL only has 15ft interrupt around him, while mara has 40ft cone shaped, which is far better. Maras has WS and ini debuff too. You see, due to the this WL and Mara are not direct mirrors. Some would even say aoe mara is much better than aoe wl. and I haven't even mentioned monstro proc, which is very strong and should not be downplayed
Weird I addressed this exact response in the main post, haha I knew some people would get mad ;)
Yes you don't get to mimic 1 for 1 what the opposing class can do, instead you get your own unique tools or tactics to experiment with. Mara has to slot pb, growing insta, and feeding on fear. Leaving him one situational tactic slow which if you go monstro you typically take subvert strength to keep up with demo spam, only if you have a zealot and restor motive or generous ap pump would you take something else. WL's can play with the 50% crit tactic, they can also decided to go without a pet, the only real tactic they need to copy this is top left tree tactic which applies 50% armor pen to slashing blade and spin 2 win and decreases AP. Echoing roar is to Wave of mutation and mouth of Tzeetch, Tearing blade is also akin to wave of mutation. To give an analogy WL is a mallet and Mara is a hammer and you're complaining that you can't pound a nail. Saying your class is not a direct mirror because instead of a cone you have aoe interrupt and instead of a WS/ini debuff you have Dot attached to aoe interrupt the mirror to demo strike is a lil too much a stretch that I think you've pulled your back muscles. Monstro proc is pretty good but it doesn't do anything a healer or a guard wouldn't do, quit being dramatic.
WL cant run 50% crit tacit on city, due pet die to fast. For me monstro proc is broken, 100% armor penetration ignore(don't care about this regen). Melle hit you for 800, with monstro proc this will be 300.
Still totaly don't get this why Mara deal same dmg like choppa on city with 4xbetter survi, and why WL deal more dmg than slayer with better survi and mobility. Remember both this class spam just 2 buttons, when on choppa/slayer you need use brain and care about positioning/removing rage and other things.

Moonbiter
Posts: 24

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#85 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:35 pm

Mergrim wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm
Stophy22 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:18 pm
Spoiler:
Sundowner wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 am


Kinda very wrong there. WL 50% crit increase tactic is tied to the pet and pet is useless in city. Loner gives 25% outgoing dmg increase, but 50% crit increase is much preferred. 25% dmg buff for WL works only from sides or back, while mara's is flat increase (literally don't know why devs haven't change that yet), mara has 20% crit chance increase (mirrored to SW), which also helps with aoe burst. As for utility, WL only has 15ft interrupt around him, while mara has 40ft cone shaped, which is far better. Maras has WS and ini debuff too. You see, due to the this WL and Mara are not direct mirrors. Some would even say aoe mara is much better than aoe wl. and I haven't even mentioned monstro proc, which is very strong and should not be downplayed
Weird I addressed this exact response in the main post, haha I knew some people would get mad ;)
Yes you don't get to mimic 1 for 1 what the opposing class can do, instead you get your own unique tools or tactics to experiment with. Mara has to slot pb, growing insta, and feeding on fear. Leaving him one situational tactic slow which if you go monstro you typically take subvert strength to keep up with demo spam, only if you have a zealot and restor motive or generous ap pump would you take something else. WL's can play with the 50% crit tactic, they can also decided to go without a pet, the only real tactic they need to copy this is top left tree tactic which applies 50% armor pen to slashing blade and spin 2 win and decreases AP. Echoing roar is to Wave of mutation and mouth of Tzeetch, Tearing blade is also akin to wave of mutation. To give an analogy WL is a mallet and Mara is a hammer and you're complaining that you can't pound a nail. Saying your class is not a direct mirror because instead of a cone you have aoe interrupt and instead of a WS/ini debuff you have Dot attached to aoe interrupt the mirror to demo strike is a lil too much a stretch that I think you've pulled your back muscles. Monstro proc is pretty good but it doesn't do anything a healer or a guard wouldn't do, quit being dramatic.
WL cant run 50% crit tacit on city, due pet die to fast. For me monstro proc is broken, 100% armor penetration ignore(don't care about this regen). Melle hit you for 800, with monstro proc this will be 300.
Still totaly don't get this why Mara deal same dmg like choppa on city with 4xbetter survi, and why WL deal more dmg than slayer with better survi and mobility. Remember both this class spam just 2 buttons, when on choppa/slayer you need use brain and care about positioning/removing rage and other things.
+25% dmg is more then +50% crit dmg.

On crit:
WLdmg*1.25*1.5=WLdmg*1.875 vs maraDmg*2.0

As for 50% crit chance we've in average
WL: (1.875+1.25)*0.5=~1.56
Mara: (2.0+1.0)*0.5=1.5
As for 25% crit chance we've
WL: 1.875*0.25+1.25*0.75=~1.4
Mara: 2.0*0.25+1.0*0.75=1.25

As I said before I can compare 80 choppa and 80 mara even geared. My choppa has 76% armour pen vs Mara 60%.
So with Wild choppin + Wot rules + Chop fasta I outdamage my mara easily.

In duels the same - choppa hits harder and lives longer. That is not normal.

Mergrim
Posts: 67

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#86 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:23 pm

Moonbiter wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:35 pm
Mergrim wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm
Stophy22 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:18 pm
Spoiler:
Weird I addressed this exact response in the main post, haha I knew some people would get mad ;)
Yes you don't get to mimic 1 for 1 what the opposing class can do, instead you get your own unique tools or tactics to experiment with. Mara has to slot pb, growing insta, and feeding on fear. Leaving him one situational tactic slow which if you go monstro you typically take subvert strength to keep up with demo spam, only if you have a zealot and restor motive or generous ap pump would you take something else. WL's can play with the 50% crit tactic, they can also decided to go without a pet, the only real tactic they need to copy this is top left tree tactic which applies 50% armor pen to slashing blade and spin 2 win and decreases AP. Echoing roar is to Wave of mutation and mouth of Tzeetch, Tearing blade is also akin to wave of mutation. To give an analogy WL is a mallet and Mara is a hammer and you're complaining that you can't pound a nail. Saying your class is not a direct mirror because instead of a cone you have aoe interrupt and instead of a WS/ini debuff you have Dot attached to aoe interrupt the mirror to demo strike is a lil too much a stretch that I think you've pulled your back muscles. Monstro proc is pretty good but it doesn't do anything a healer or a guard wouldn't do, quit being dramatic.
WL cant run 50% crit tacit on city, due pet die to fast. For me monstro proc is broken, 100% armor penetration ignore(don't care about this regen). Melle hit you for 800, with monstro proc this will be 300.
Still totaly don't get this why Mara deal same dmg like choppa on city with 4xbetter survi, and why WL deal more dmg than slayer with better survi and mobility. Remember both this class spam just 2 buttons, when on choppa/slayer you need use brain and care about positioning/removing rage and other things.
+25% dmg is more then +50% crit dmg.

On crit:
WLdmg*1.25*1.5=WLdmg*1.875 vs maraDmg*2.0

As for 50% crit chance we've in average
WL: (1.875+1.25)*0.5=~1.56
Mara: (2.0+1.0)*0.5=1.5
As for 25% crit chance we've
WL: 1.875*0.25+1.25*0.75=~1.4
Mara: 2.0*0.25+1.0*0.75=1.25

As I said before I can compare 80 choppa and 80 mara even geared. My choppa has 76% armour pen vs Mara 60%.
So with Wild choppin + Wot rules + Chop fasta I outdamage my mara easily.

In duels the same - choppa hits harder and lives longer. That is not normal.
Show me any screenshot city when your choppa beat good mara like Iit or others. So far played around 10 city on my mara with vanq/2sove, 4sove/4vanq, now bis and don't have single one that choppa are close to my dmg/kb.
60% crit 50% crit dmg 25% mutated aggresor prebuff>>>all you write.
Choppa is maybe a little better in 1vs1 because he have knockdown and furious choppin but if enemy know your skill you will never heal with this. 6vs6 mara easy beat choppa.
WIld choppin+wot rules+chop fasta only build thats made you can compare to mara dmg. What is your armor and resist on this build? what is you chance to be crit? Good spec to fight vs pug if you have decent fight you are dead.

User avatar
Stophy22
Posts: 367

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#87 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:46 am

Mergrim wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm
Stophy22 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:18 pm
Spoiler:
Sundowner wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 am


Kinda very wrong there. WL 50% crit increase tactic is tied to the pet and pet is useless in city. Loner gives 25% outgoing dmg increase, but 50% crit increase is much preferred. 25% dmg buff for WL works only from sides or back, while mara's is flat increase (literally don't know why devs haven't change that yet), mara has 20% crit chance increase (mirrored to SW), which also helps with aoe burst. As for utility, WL only has 15ft interrupt around him, while mara has 40ft cone shaped, which is far better. Maras has WS and ini debuff too. You see, due to the this WL and Mara are not direct mirrors. Some would even say aoe mara is much better than aoe wl. and I haven't even mentioned monstro proc, which is very strong and should not be downplayed
Weird I addressed this exact response in the main post, haha I knew some people would get mad ;)
Yes you don't get to mimic 1 for 1 what the opposing class can do, instead you get your own unique tools or tactics to experiment with. Mara has to slot pb, growing insta, and feeding on fear. Leaving him one situational tactic slow which if you go monstro you typically take subvert strength to keep up with demo spam, only if you have a zealot and restor motive or generous ap pump would you take something else. WL's can play with the 50% crit tactic, they can also decided to go without a pet, the only real tactic they need to copy this is top left tree tactic which applies 50% armor pen to slashing blade and spin 2 win and decreases AP. Echoing roar is to Wave of mutation and mouth of Tzeetch, Tearing blade is also akin to wave of mutation. To give an analogy WL is a mallet and Mara is a hammer and you're complaining that you can't pound a nail. Saying your class is not a direct mirror because instead of a cone you have aoe interrupt and instead of a WS/ini debuff you have Dot attached to aoe interrupt the mirror to demo strike is a lil too much a stretch that I think you've pulled your back muscles. Monstro proc is pretty good but it doesn't do anything a healer or a guard wouldn't do, quit being dramatic.
For me monstro proc is broken, 100% armor penetration ignore(don't care about this regen). Melle hit you for 800, with monstro proc this will be 300.
You're confusing monstro proc w/ guard. :roll:
Image
Kuro Mara R7x
Bunji DoK R6x
Kurodon BG R8x
Archea Chosen R6x

Allbback
Posts: 17

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#88 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:53 am

hmm...its just hard hard hard convince ppl .... from live Wor to Ror , i cant see any live mara playing anymore , i hope devs can check the patch form lives and noticed what are they doing .....and any of rr 100 mara form live 's player will know what am i saying....it just really hard convince people.....i just showed this article that you guys might interested and u will know as a live mara's feeling in Ror

http://silverwf.blogspot.com/2018/01/ma ... n-ror.html

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theoddone
Posts: 113

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#89 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:12 pm

This might be my favorite part of the whole thread.
Moonbiter wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:34 pm
Discussions of mara's lack of mobility are always the same: trolls switches the point to aoe dps.

Lets talk about single target mara (sav+brut, no monstro) mobility and auxillary skills.
And then watching the thread unfold...

BUT MUH 25% MONSTRO PROC!!! MARA+CITY!!!

As for the OP marauder tactics. On paper the tactics might look OP, but the class is balanced around it. I mean, do you see SINGLE TARGET marauders doing massively more damage on ranked scoreboards compared to slayer, white lion, ASW, choppa, WE? Nope, not even with the wonders of PB, GI, or FoF. Also remember optimally mara cant run BF so it has to compensate for this through gear. Other classes can allocate those stats towards ws.

Looking forward to Mergrim's reply with the same copy paste stuff as before in the thread :D
-Theo

Mergrim
Posts: 67

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#90 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:33 pm

theoddone wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:12 pm
This might be my favorite part of the whole thread.
Moonbiter wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:34 pm
Discussions of mara's lack of mobility are always the same: trolls switches the point to aoe dps.

Lets talk about single target mara (sav+brut, no monstro) mobility and auxillary skills.
And then watching the thread unfold...

BUT MUH 25% MONSTRO PROC!!! MARA+CITY!!!

As for the OP marauder tactics. On paper the tactics might look OP, but the class is balanced around it. I mean, do you see SINGLE TARGET marauders doing massively more damage on ranked scoreboards compared to slayer, white lion, ASW, choppa, WE? Nope, not even with the wonders of PB, GI, or FoF. Also remember optimally mara cant run BF so it has to compensate for this through gear. Other classes can allocate those stats towards ws.

Looking forward to Mergrim's reply with the same copy paste stuff as before in the thread :D
Yes i see marauder deal more SINGLE TARGET dmg than choppa/asw/white lion/wh(same dmg like we).(remember thats many choppa use lotsa choppin that hits 3target but still mara easy outdps choppa) Problem with slayer is ID that tick on all target around making pressure on st and aoe.
Have 950 str on my bis mara and don't need more. Both choppa and slayer must run with BF and 120str/120ws tactic. Give them PB so they have extra tactic and 40+ free renown point:D

2days ago have ranked 2mara vs 2 slayer. 2mara easy win.

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