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Your thoughts about Mara

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Mergrim
Posts: 239

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#71 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:22 pm

Moonbiter wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 pm
Fenris78 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:51 pm The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?
3k on guillotine? Realy?
Just test it on a dummy (no thoughness, no armour on it)
1105 str
37 melee str
+50% crit dmg
piercing bite (+50% armour pen)
+25% from mutated aggressor

i've got values in between 1900-2150.
In practice i've got 1300 at best (low armour target with cutting claw applied). So, 3k is fake at least. No offence intended.


Some other posts here was about 1000 hp per 5 sec. restoration....
That is 'not so too'. It has a chance of 25% per hit. So it's 1000hp per 11 sec in average (4 hits in avarage to get an effect and that needs 6 sec + 5 sec to restore hp).
It's 91hp per sec. Ha...greatest skill ever...
It is as ridiculous as to recommend a WL to use Furious Mending. They could get a constant flow of restoration even not being engaged!

The unbalance is in mobility mostly.
Please man test something before you write. Wrecking ball hit 7 times in 3sec, if you hit mutliple target you have 80-90% monstro buff uptime.
Image

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skylinx
Posts: 81

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#72 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:32 am

I see most city instances with mara top damage champions and, if there are multiple maras, doing almost champ level damage. Plus the fact they take less damage then a tank, mitigating 80% of anything you throw at them.

Any balance should bring them more in line with a white lion or a shadow warrior in regards to the trio of damage output, utility in warband and incoming damage tankiness

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palindrom
Posts: 24

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#73 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:35 am

So, you are saying, that the dude with 4 Demolitions on screenshot, the dude without "more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone" on screenshot and a bunch of dudes which never played a marauder, are getting this topic up to eight page? Seems legit.
Shaqattak - Marauder

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Stophy22
Posts: 444

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#74 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 am

All classes have give and take, Mara has some neat tricks. I think people forget when any of them make these, "complain" threads is that all the classes have unique roles, strengths, and abilities. And this should be the #1 important factoid to consider when looking at specific classes and thinking, "this needs change."

When I go to city on my mara I often get highest damage and close to max DB's, I wouldn't say its because I'm a mara. People who are using fallacies like such are pretty redundant factually and show you don't have much of a knowledge level when it comes to RoR. Reality of it is playstyle and knowledge and a lot of superior positioning and teamwork. It's the same reason why a lot of players dread unorganized play and would rather do nothing before their dedicated tanks and healers log in.

My thoughts on mara are that I like where it is currently. I often see people complain about mara and that it is OP and I would disagree, I'll go over why but many people will just say, "he plays mara, bias." So I'll leave that there for future reference. I also have played every other class in the game to at least 40/40. With considerable hours on both sides.

I think when people complain about mara they commonly have issues with the monstro spec of mara. The thing about monstro spec for mara is when you go monstro spec you're full monstro, unless u snatch guillo in Brut at RR60+, and thats if you don't want whispers or crushing blows. Most people aren't going to switch to brut to stop the aoe spam tho since that defeats the purpose of going monstro mara.

I think people have this crazy misconceptions that when you're sav/brut mara you can get the proc from monstro and just be this invincible god dps tank hybrid, but in reality if you spec monstro you're probably just rolling around in warband play spinning 2 win.When you get monstro proc and you leave monstro stance the proc fades, this is law for all stances except savagery which I think keeps the debuff on the target but I could be wrong there, its been a while since ive payed attention to savagery proc.

Mutated aggressor, armor pen from piercing bite, High Crit chance mixed w/ Growing instability make the typical Demo spam and Wrecking ball deal some nice damage I'll admit but this is just high end AOE fluff at the end of the day, which any Melee DPS or Ranged DPS is capable of, including the direct mirror WL, which can grab the same channel and spam the same "demo", gets the same 50% inc in crits, gets the same 20%damage buff and if you want to argue he can't have a pet then can slot loner/flanking which mara typically won't slot flanking or shouldn't give up a tactic slot for it because it would be a decrease in damage, so kudos WL. In this scenario of warband play any and all dps should be guarded. This is where all dps get their survivability. Not the ability to shrug off armor. Not the ability to get a hot. Having a dedicated tank guarding oneself. If you kill people through guard someone is doing something very wrong. Killing someone through a guard is akin to killing someone through a detaunt which again typically is not going to happen. If you are a dps and you die through guard and you are not to blame for your mishaps toss your teammates a glare that wargrim himself would be proud of.

Here is the part where everyone starts getting mad, "WL CAN'T DO THE SAME..." Yeah maybe there are subtle differences but still whenever I see these threads is like you guys actively advocate for this stale ass ideal that Class X on Destro should be the exact **** same as Class Y on order, otherwise its OP. This thought process and ideal is going to end up with a garbage game and experience.

What you all forget is yes Class X and Y are mirrored but they aren't the same and should never be the same. They will share abilities, possibly even mechanics, and maybe even class identity but unless something is underperforming drastically it shouldn't really be looked at, with the current time and resources available to the team that does RoR you don't get the luxury to look at classes like Mara, WL, Slayer, Choppa, etc. and complain and say they're things wrong with them, because in reality these classes function really well at a core level and do exactly what they should do. Maybe some fine tweaking here and there but there are other classes that drastically need changes much sooner before **** marauder lol.
Spoiler:
A big argument topic is, "mara doesn't have pounce..." dude I'll be **** damned if a Melee dps needs more than Feline Grace (imunity to roots and snares 10 seconds) and Charge (go **** fast for a few seconds) All of you dps, go play a tank right this second and try to **** maneuver the battlefield with only juggernaught and flee and AP pots, I'll be damned if you don't get perma kited by most if not all ranged. The fact that WL's get pounce make them a safer class to play since they can close distances quicker and save the afore mentioned buttons for escape but by no means is it necessary and should be thought as something unique to WL's (and now SH's, woooo uniqueness!) and should be considered a cool unique trait you get for playing the other side. Mara gets this cool knockdown if you disrupt something but I might be able to use that ability once every week.

How chosen and knight players have put up with their pathetic excuse for a class for this long is impressive. How Archmages are primarily a dps on this server before a healer, when the classes is coded as a healer. How squig herders have a melee spec that outshines core melee classes when its coded as a ranged. How shadow warrior has a mirror spec to squig but no where near as much impact to city scenarios. How WE and WH still remain questionable as to what their role is in a warband. I would consider all of the above to be things worthy of addressing before we get to, "Marauder 2 strong, shrug off armor pen and unkillable with 100% armor pen".

It's cool to have opinions about the state of the game and how things should be and maybe some really geared maras style on your anni/conq-unguarded-solo-roam-ass sucks and makes you want to complain but play the game for a year or two before you think can tell the servers population what's wrong with it and what needs fixing.
[2 Weeks]/[Definitely Not Heretics]
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Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#75 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 am

Stophy22 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 am All classes have give and take, Mara has some neat tricks. I think people forget when any of them make these, "complain" threads is that all the classes have unique roles, strengths, and abilities. And this should be the #1 important factoid to consider when looking at specific classes and thinking, "this needs change."

any Melee DPS or Ranged DPS is capable of, including the direct mirror WL, which can grab the same channel and spam the same "demo", gets the same 50% inc in crits, gets the same 20%damage buff and if you want to argue he can't have a pet then can slot loner/flanking which mara typically won't slot flanking or shouldn't give up a tactic slot for it because it would be a decrease in damage, so kudos WL. In this scenario of warband play any and all dps should be guarded. This is where all dps get their survivability. Not the ability to shrug off armor.
Kinda very wrong there. WL 50% crit increase tactic is tied to the pet and pet is useless in city. Loner gives 25% outgoing dmg increase, but 50% crit increase is much preferred. 25% dmg buff for WL works only from sides or back, while mara's is flat increase (literally don't know why devs haven't change that yet), mara has 20% crit chance increase (mirrored to SW), which also helps with aoe burst. As for utility, WL only has 15ft interrupt around him, while mara has 40ft cone shaped, which is far better. Maras has WS and ini debuff too. You see, due to the this WL and Mara are not direct mirrors. Some would even say aoe mara is much better than aoe wl. and I haven't even mentioned monstro proc, which is very strong and should not be downplayed

Moonbiter
Posts: 71

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#76 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:09 am

Mergrim wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:22 pm
Moonbiter wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 pm
Fenris78 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:51 pm The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?
3k on guillotine? Realy?
Just test it on a dummy (no thoughness, no armour on it)
1105 str
37 melee str
+50% crit dmg
piercing bite (+50% armour pen)
+25% from mutated aggressor

i've got values in between 1900-2150.
In practice i've got 1300 at best (low armour target with cutting claw applied). So, 3k is fake at least. No offence intended.


Some other posts here was about 1000 hp per 5 sec. restoration....
That is 'not so too'. It has a chance of 25% per hit. So it's 1000hp per 11 sec in average (4 hits in avarage to get an effect and that needs 6 sec + 5 sec to restore hp).
It's 91hp per sec. Ha...greatest skill ever...
It is as ridiculous as to recommend a WL to use Furious Mending. They could get a constant flow of restoration even not being engaged!

The unbalance is in mobility mostly.
Please man test something before you write. Wrecking ball hit 7 times in 3sec, if you hit mutliple target you have 80-90% monstro buff uptime.
Image
It's nice to go facts, realy.
But your testing is incomplete. You have to wait for wrecking ball cd for 13 sec. This is the first point. And that scenario gives you 1000hp per 13 sec. 77hp per sec is even worse.

The next point you amiss is a back lash or other forms of dmg reflection. So wrecking ball could run you dead very quickly if there is enough targets. Because it's fire 6 times per 3 sec right as you say. Without hp regen wrecking ball will be useless against multiple targets because you go die fast.

I'd rather get rid of hp regen and armour pen resist if the wrecking ball do fire 1 time for all dmg. In wb playing your safety comes from team mates, tanks and healers. Not from monstro abilities.

Now, please answer me about single target fights.
WL may perform better in single target combat and Mara may be better in wb fights. So, I does not argue for total equality.
BUT there is a huge disadvantage in mobility (pounces, knocks) for single target mara vs WL or vs SW.
Could you say that all that knocks, pounces and pulls are equal?

Moonbiter
Posts: 71

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#77 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:10 am

Mergrim wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:22 pm
Moonbiter wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 pm
Fenris78 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:51 pm The added bonuses of Armor debuff, armor Ignore, +50% crit dmg and +25% from Mutated agressor seem to stack and are able to net more than 3k dmg on guillotine alone... Isnt that a bit much of dps when we add all together ?
3k on guillotine? Realy?
Just test it on a dummy (no thoughness, no armour on it)
1105 str
37 melee str
+50% crit dmg
piercing bite (+50% armour pen)
+25% from mutated aggressor

i've got values in between 1900-2150.
In practice i've got 1300 at best (low armour target with cutting claw applied). So, 3k is fake at least. No offence intended.


Some other posts here was about 1000 hp per 5 sec. restoration....
That is 'not so too'. It has a chance of 25% per hit. So it's 1000hp per 11 sec in average (4 hits in avarage to get an effect and that needs 6 sec + 5 sec to restore hp).
It's 91hp per sec. Ha...greatest skill ever...
It is as ridiculous as to recommend a WL to use Furious Mending. They could get a constant flow of restoration even not being engaged!

The unbalance is in mobility mostly.
Please man test something before you write. Wrecking ball hit 7 times in 3sec, if you hit mutliple target you have 80-90% monstro buff uptime.
Image
It's nice to go facts, realy.
But your testing is incomplete. You have to wait for wrecking ball cd for 13 sec. This is the first point. And that scenario gives you 1000hp per 13 sec. 77hp per sec is even worse.

The next point you amiss is a back lash or other forms of dmg reflection. So wrecking ball could run you dead very quickly if there is enough targets. Because it's fire 6 times per 3 sec right as you say. Without hp regen wrecking ball will be useless against multiple targets because you go die fast.

I'd rather get rid of hp regen and armour pen resist if the wrecking ball do fire 1 time for all dmg. In wb playing your safety comes from team mates, tanks and healers. Not from monstro abilities.

Now, please answer me about single target fights.
WL may perform better in single target combat and Mara may be better in wb fights. So, I does not argue for total equality.
BUT there is a huge disadvantage in mobility (pounces, knocks) for single target mara vs WL or vs SW.
Could you say that all that knocks, pounces and pulls are equal?

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agemennon675
Posts: 505

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#78 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:04 am

Moonbiter wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:09 am
Mergrim wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:22 pm
Moonbiter wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 pm
3k on guillotine? Realy?
Just test it on a dummy (no thoughness, no armour on it)
1105 str
37 melee str
+50% crit dmg
piercing bite (+50% armour pen)
+25% from mutated aggressor

i've got values in between 1900-2150.
In practice i've got 1300 at best (low armour target with cutting claw applied). So, 3k is fake at least. No offence intended.


Some other posts here was about 1000 hp per 5 sec. restoration....
That is 'not so too'. It has a chance of 25% per hit. So it's 1000hp per 11 sec in average (4 hits in avarage to get an effect and that needs 6 sec + 5 sec to restore hp).
It's 91hp per sec. Ha...greatest skill ever...
It is as ridiculous as to recommend a WL to use Furious Mending. They could get a constant flow of restoration even not being engaged!

The unbalance is in mobility mostly.
Please man test something before you write. Wrecking ball hit 7 times in 3sec, if you hit mutliple target you have 80-90% monstro buff uptime.
Image
It's nice to go facts, realy.
But your testing is incomplete. You have to wait for wrecking ball cd for 13 sec. This is the first point. And that scenario gives you 1000hp per 13 sec. 77hp per sec is even worse.

The next point you amiss is a back lash or other forms of dmg reflection. So wrecking ball could run you dead very quickly if there is enough targets. Because it's fire 6 times per 3 sec right as you say. Without hp regen wrecking ball will be useless against multiple targets because you go die fast.

I'd rather get rid of hp regen and armour pen resist if the wrecking ball do fire 1 time for all dmg. In wb playing your safety comes from team mates, tanks and healers. Not from monstro abilities.

Now, please answer me about single target fights.
WL may perform better in single target combat and Mara may be better in wb fights. So, I does not argue for total equality.
BUT there is a huge disadvantage in mobility (pounces, knocks) for single target mara vs WL or vs SW.
Could you say that all that knocks, pounces and pulls are equal?
Wrecking ball is 13 sec cooldown but channelled abilities start CD when casting starts so its practically 10 sec cd, if you use it during chop fasta or waaagh its only 5 sec, so you should have it up every 5 sec in warband
Destruction: 40-BG / 40-DoK / 40-Chosen / 37-Mara / 37/Sorc / 36-SH / 36-Choppa / 24-Shaman / 16-WE
Order: 40-SW / 40-SM / 40-WP / 40-WL / 39-Kotbs / 38-BW / 33-AM / 22-WH / 16-RP / 12-Slayer

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Mergrim
Posts: 239

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#79 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:47 pm

Meh you totaly don't get my point here, wrecking ball is fastest way to have monstro buff proc, on city you use demolition and sometimes wrecking ball, anyway here is screenshot when i hit only with demolition. Remember that on city you hit more targets and highest chance to get proc.
And nope WL easy outdps mara in city. Mara have better single target.
Image

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Your thoughts about Mara

Post#80 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:35 pm

New meta. Who will make more heal as mara.

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