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[Magus] Useless in end game content?

Chosen, Magus, Marauder, Zealot
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Dackle
Posts: 140

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#91 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:12 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:22 pm
Skazur wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:56 pm And to have that being said: eng/mag are hard to play to be effective. You won't find more than a handful of player's who excel with the class; I can only remember the names of about 4-5 eng's which have impressed me with their gameplay; all the hundred other aoe-dot-fluff-damagedealer's don't bring anything useful to the team.
If BW and Sorc had a buff they had to use to keep up the class mechanics of crit/crit damage that had a 2sec cast time that fell off after 5-6 hits they would be in the same boat as magus and engie.
To be fair they do have to keep resources (i.e. combustion) up for maximum damage.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#92 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:30 pm

Dackle wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:12 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:22 pm
Skazur wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:56 pm And to have that being said: eng/mag are hard to play to be effective. You won't find more than a handful of player's who excel with the class; I can only remember the names of about 4-5 eng's which have impressed me with their gameplay; all the hundred other aoe-dot-fluff-damagedealer's don't bring anything useful to the team.
If BW and Sorc had a buff they had to use to keep up the class mechanics of crit/crit damage that had a 2sec cast time that fell off after 5-6 hits they would be in the same boat as magus and engie.
To be fair they do have to keep resources (i.e. combustion) up for maximum damage.
Yes they do but they don't lose it if they get hit 5-6 times. The turret doesn't get heals from group heals, has like tops between 3-5k hp has no real defense so gets hit for max damage. Turret dies you lose all your damage bonus.

Imagine if you were playing BW or Sorc and after you got hit from 5-6 aoes it reset your combustion to 0. That is what it is like to use a turret.
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Zxul
Posts: 1359

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#93 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:48 pm

martholomew wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:53 pm
xruptor wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:23 pm
martholomew wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:26 pm

This^ 100%.

I have so much fun playing a single target sniping Magus, and I can just about completely erase someone I focus on, but joining a warband for a siege it seems they don't give a **** about that for some reason, and being the only Magus, and having people ask if I am Rift, and then either scold me or tell me they're removing me because I don't want to be Rift and they just totally need that one trick pony BS is really sucky and disheartening. Not everyone wants to be a Zealot, Chosen or Choppa.

All it would take to solve the problem is make Rift a baseline ability for all Magi, which is already one of the least played classes on the server, and it's definitely not an easy one to do right. Our counterpart has a much easier endgame experience than we do.

Well that sucks :( Oh well I guess there is always the Sorcerer or something. It's hilarious how the classes I enjoy and would like to play are the ones either are not meta or the least played. Kinda sucks :(
I 100% feel you!

I would LIKE to be a DPS Warrior Priest, but OHhhh HO ho, don't you DARE try that one. Peer pressure and elitist condescension are powerful things in this server.
Well to be fair, in rvr on my dok when in dps spec I do have the common decency to not join wbs. Same on my dps zealot.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

sundey
Posts: 22

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#94 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:16 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:06 pm
martholomew wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:41 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:22 pm

I don't think it is a matter of the class is harder to play but mechanics of the class are bad design. The whole class is tied to a mechanic that has a turret with 0 defenses and very low hp. The turret takes 16 secs of ramp up time to get to max damage for you to equal the same damage a sorc or bw could do and can be reset back to 0 at any time if it dies. Even using the turret with the most hp in wb vs wb situations like city it dies in about 3secs after summoning with how much aoe is flying around. If BW and Sorc had a buff they had to use to keep up the class mechanics of crit/crit damage that had a 2sec cast time that fell off after 5-6 hits they would be in the same boat as magus and engie.

No other class has a class mechanic that can be hard countered by random aoe flying around as much as magus/engie.
This is an excellent and very valid point...

If only there were some way to have maybe a solo/lone tactic we could slot that let us be a "Solo" class without using a pet, like some classes who have similar....wouldn't that be something.
The loner tactic would be hard to do because the turrets also add other benefits. I was trying to think of ways to fix this the other day. One would be to just mirror stats from caster to turret including all health/defenses 1-1.

The other idea was to not have all stacks fall off as soon as the turret dies. Instead if the turret dies you get a temp buff that lasts 10 seconds that keeps you at the stacks the turret had when it died, if you summon a new turret before the buff drops it puts all those stacks back on that turret.
You only lose 4 stacks when it dies, and even with the 100% wounds of the aoe daemon/turret, it still dies almost instantly.

There are various options that would help, such as granting a massive damage reduction modifier to aoe damage (which would force people to focus it), creating an abilitiy that heals the daemon or gives it temporary immunity (more pet management), making Chaotic Attunement/Well-Oiled Machine (or a weaker version of them) core to the pets, changing Resummon in some way (e.g. reduce cd/ap cost), make the pet more mobile in some limited way (such as ground-target Resummon or a temporary ability to follow player)....

Another approach would be to create an aoe-focused tactic (which has, e.g., one or more of the effects above), which you could choose to slot in aoe situations. CA would probably have to be made core in that case though, or its effects incorporated into the new tactic.

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xruptor
Posts: 111

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#95 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 pm

As much as it pains me as I do enjoy this class a lot, this may be all a moot point as it may be "working as intended". I don't think they will touch the class at the moment as they have more pressing issues to resolve. Not to mention folks are still waiting for these supposed Squig Herder improvements or changes they've been promised for god knows how long. At least that's what folks keep telling me lol, I'm new so I have no idea.

Though you all have come up with creative ways to try to fix some of the issues with the class. Some of which would be totally neat to have.

MonkeyHead
Posts: 47

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#96 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:23 am

Sounds like this could be fixed by making the pet unkillable. Makeis so the only way to get rid of the Magus/eng pet is by killing the Magus/eng. I don't see how that would do anything except allow the class not to be trash. Its not like the pet itself is killing anything.

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martholomew
Posts: 162

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#97 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:26 pm

At this point I would be satisfied with the stacks, once they have hit max, never dropping off as long as the pet is alive no matter how far you are away from it, and doubling the distance you can be away from the pet for the stacks to build. That would at lest help.
Magus 40/78

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Waaghaa
Posts: 210

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#98 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:34 pm

A fast answer to the question, if they are useless, they are not, however they are not demigods either, nor should they be, Magus lacks 1 thing above all and that is something that reduces incomming heals, as it is now, our 14 points dissolving mist aka the pink soup, more often than not, players ignore the fact that they are standing in it for the full duration, this is one the strongest, if not the strongest spell, in the change tree , now, just imagine if the soup would have a reduce of incomming heals effect, I dare say that even as low as 20% it would make a huge difference, none would willingly stand in it.

It would also make change to be a desired spec to have in Cities, imo change is first and foremost most effective in defence and as it is now, rift is the specc to be in cities, however rift can't be used in pug's where most are clueless to the wants and needs of other classes, so you need to be guilded in order to rift properly (aka survive that which you are rifting to you)

Our counter part the despicable stuntie-engi has group heals in 1 tree so it is not so far fetched to wish that we had something to counter that with, in comparison with the 2 classes, the chance of our pets actually killing an order player is slim to none, I have however died more times that I care to admit to turrets though, still I see no need to change them one bit.
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xruptor
Posts: 111

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#99 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:51 pm

Waaghaa wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:34 pm Our counter part the despicable stuntie-engi has group heals in 1 tree so it is not so far fetched to wish that we had something to counter that with, in comparison with the 2 classes, the chance of our pets actually killing an order player is slim to none, I have however died more times that I care to admit to turrets though, still I see no need to change them one bit.


Isn't it funny, how you almost never really hear any negative things about our counterpart on Order? The Engineer? So much stigma on the Magus on Destruction side it isn't even funny. Wargrimnir pretty much said it best earlier in the thread. viewtopic.php?f=72&t=38573&start=80#p437242

This is why you never really see any posts like the following:
  • "[Engineer] Useless in end game content?"
  • "Engineer pointless in endgame"
  • "Are Engineer a waste of time?"
  • "Engineer garbage endgame?"
  • "Should I level a Engineer? Are they useful?"
etc.. etc... etc..

BUT if you lookup similar topics to those above and replace ENGINEER with MAGUS, you will find an abundance of them.

On a side note... yes I do think we should have a heal debuff of some sort or at least some compensation/fix with the turrets. But that will never happen ;)

MonkeyHead
Posts: 47

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#100 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:36 pm

xruptor wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:51 pm Isn't it funny, how you almost never really hear any negative things about our counterpart on Order? The Engineer? So much stigma on the Magus on Destruction side it isn't even funny. Wargrimnir pretty much said it best earlier in the thread. viewtopic.php?f=72&t=38573&start=80#p437242
Is it funny? Or is it a coding issue? We will never know. I'd like to be sure that Wargrimnir and the devs know, but I don't think they do. If you wanted to find out if Order has an average of 4 or 10 or 40 more power activations per fight due to various classes advantage over their mirror, you would need to collect the data from every fight over say 6 months and make a report. If that was something they were doing then I think Wargrimnir would gleefully drop that report on the sadsacks calling for nerfs. The game alledgely had that logging in beta but it made lag a real issue so I don't think we will see any data driven changes in the future. It would be wonderfully fun to pull out data that showed metrics for factions as a whole that you could drill down to individual player varance in a particular class. or time of day, or SC. we could highlight the world's best Magus and compare them directly to the best engi. then compare them both to the average marauder or WL and see if their contributions to the game as a whole are woefully lacking. If that data exists the Devs can let me know if you need a data analyst.

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