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[Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine

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Cyrylius
Posts: 8

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#21 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:05 am

There's one pretty big issue with snb BG utility, and that is there's not a lot of it. Even after adding survivability tools everything you have in your tree is mid tree without block channel (which, trust me, you want to take anyway for a multitude of reasons I'll try to mention later) and elite training in right tree, which pumps some ap into your dark protected. I'm not sure why nobody mentioned this skill, it's very good and it's among things you might consider when going for utility BG, as fast ap replenishment is great for mdps. Next thing: survivability. If you find yourself playing snb BG chances are you participate in orvr, and there's no such thing as too tanky tank in orvr, period. Even with all the tools available BG is the squishiest out of destro tanks if built for survivability, losing to blorc always and to chosen when flanked, and turning down any tools that help with that is a mistake. And tanks first task in orvr is providing backbone to fights, and buying time for dps to do damage, healers to stabilise or reinforcements to arrive. So everything that helps you with surviving is great, therefore you will take block channel, block on hate and parry on hate as they are already in your main mastery tree. Then you need to take wave of scorn, because it's the main and quite often only thing you bring to warband as a snb BG. As a matter of fact: yes, taking snb BG into a warband means you couldn't find any other tank above rank 35 or you are in fort and you just found a BG and you don't care that much.
So, with about 10 mastery points used on mid tree, you have some choice. Things you might consider are: enraged beating in left tree, which is qol skill for fast hate generation and doing more damage than snb kotbs, force of fury which is your second way of helping focused party member in surviving ( especially the crit part might be very helpful for some classes), disrupt tactic in right tree, elite training and M4. I'm not listing self heal cause it's too small in large-scale, kd cause you already have one and cd cause it's not your spec. And, out of things I mentioned, you can pick a few.
And the idea behind going for fof is, with speccing mid tree up to fof you can grab M4 and enraged beating, which means only thing you miss is disrupt tactic and elite training.
A quick clarification: I don't think disrupt is that important for BG in particular, unless you really want to get endless pursuit procs consistently. BW warband are, as it was mentioned, thing if past, and currently magic damage is comparably rare on order. So the only thing you miss is elite training, which is remotely comparable to force of fury. Unfortunately it's also second skill in tree, so taking it is much more expensive. Therefore it's usually just better to go full mid tree with enraged beating, you miss only one thing you might be expected to bring to the warband and bring everything you might be expected to have
As a side note, you will have troubles with finding 4 good tactics on BG for snb, block and parry ones are obvious but then there's a bit of an issue with last 2 slots. That's why taking terrifying foe isn't a bad idea. Last slot I recommend using for one of two bg mobility tactics: endless pursuit or unstoppable juggernaut. I find both of those useful rather frequently in orvr when following mdps with snare break and charge, so they might make it easier for inexperienced tank to get used to guarding reality (or for experienced tank to be a bit more lazy with positioning: I don't judge, I run one of those, both are great. Highly recommended)
P.S. after studying BG mastery tree i can't find any other skills you might be tempted to branch into, so I can't really agree with fof being detrimental to build flexibility.
P.P.S. Khaine's warding is a defensive M4 designed solely for very large scale fights, but in those it works much better than immaculate defense. Do consider it a useful skill when creating your own BG snb build.
P.P.P.S. With block channel and a bit of commitment to the cause BG will reach 95+ block chance, perhaps exceeding 100 sometimes. As avoidances are percentage based, the more you have the more you get from extra points in those, so when making a build i advise maxing block gained from equipment and RR, it's the fastest way of making bg tanky enough to not require direct healing most of time, which should be understood as benchmark of good tank.

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Moonbiter
Posts: 32

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#22 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:15 pm

Cyrylius wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:05 am
... there's no such thing as too tanky tank in orvr, period. Even with all the tools available BG is the squishiest out of destro tanks if built for survivability, losing to blorc always and to chosen when flanked, and turning down any tools that help with that is a mistake....
Why do you state BG is squishest of all? Can you clarify please? BO is thougher than Chosen, yes, because of channeling block. But BG has the relatively same...
Where from the squishness is comming?

Cyrylius
Posts: 8

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#23 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:10 pm

Difference isn't big, but chosen, while having no tactic comparable to block for hate, has ctbc- and oppression, both of those giving it better survivability when avoidances aren't playing a major role. In particular toughness buff that BG could theoretically use to get good survivability when flanked unfortunately buffs a pretty lackluster defensive statistic, while ctbc- is a universal and effective defensive tool.

With all that said the difference isn't big, you could make a point that with block channel and toughness proc up BG lives longer than chosen, but aside from a pretty bad 33,(3) uptime you have most of your survivability in form of avoidances, and that's just risky. If you can use them you're fine, otherwise
is much more versatile.

I do admit that it was initially an observation based on which tank dies faster in average warband, so I'm not going to defend my point particularly stubbornly. I think I made a solid argument here however.
P.S. I'm assuming average chosen runs mixed defences and flawless armour, but I can imagine slotting piercing repel on top as I'm not entirely sure whether chosen needs an ap tactic. If you slot it then chosen will definitely outlive BG in dogfight.
Edit: i totally forgot about supression parry buff, it's perma uptime and means chosen will get extremely high parry (correct me if I'm mistaken, it might get to 90+) on top of all the other stuff. While it's significantly worse than block it's going to be almost permanently on which is many times better than nsp channel.

Moonbiter
Posts: 32

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#24 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:02 pm

Cyrylius wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:10 pm
Difference isn't big, but chosen, while having no tactic comparable to block for hate, has ctbc- and oppression, both of those giving it better survivability when avoidances aren't playing a major role. In particular toughness buff that BG could theoretically use to get good survivability when flanked unfortunately buffs a pretty lackluster defensive statistic, while ctbc- is a universal and effective defensive tool.
But BG has the ctbc-15% as Force of Fury.
And its castable without enemy contact.
Isnt it outweight Chosen's 5ft Oppression?

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