BG for LV

[Neznan]

Godo day Friends.

Any experienced BG here who can share his Build + Gear for Dungeons (low tiers and LV)
Also what stat matter for tanking at Dungeons - Wounds, Tough or Armour?

Would appreciate your help.

Thanks

[Kylashandra]

The importants stats for PvE tanking are Armor, Wounds, Init and a little bit of Str for a more confortable threat generation. Toughness has been for a long time considered useless for PvE tanking because it only mitigates small amounts of damage which is pretty worthless against bosses, but some LV encounters may challenge this thought due to the amount of adds (Horgulul encounter for example).

My basic gear template on BG for LV is getting close to 10k5 / 11k HP / 5k armor with self buff + pot / obviously 0% incoming crit chance / a good amount of parry + block / and around 400 / 500 str for a decent aoe threat generation.

Concerning build, if you want a conservative approach to discover and tank the dungeon outside of a speedrun setting, i'll do something like this this for a confortable tanking experience (good tankiness + Aoe threat generation).

[Gladiolix]

10k+ hp (lots of true damage from bosses), ignore toughness, high armour always good in pve, max parry (or block if SnB). Nothing is as important as obeying the mechanics in LV.

Edit: And this is for every tank, not just BG.

[Neznan]

The importants stats for PvE tanking are Armor, Wounds, Init and a little bit of Str for a more confortable threat generation. Toughness has been for a long time considered useless for PvE tanking because it only mitigates small amounts of damage which is pretty worthless against bosses, but some LV encounters may challenge this thought due to the amount of adds (Horgulul encounter for example).

My basic gear template on BG for LV is getting close to 10k5 / 11k HP / 5k armor with self buff + pot / obviously 0% incoming crit chance / a good amount of parry + block / and around 400 / 500 str for a decent aoe threat generation.

Concerning build, if you want a conservative approach to discover and tank the dungeon outside of a speedrun setting, i'll do something like this this for a confortable tanking experience (good tankiness + Aoe threat generation).

Many thanks for reply
Just one more - is it important to have disrupt at PVE? or useless?

[Kylashandra]

Just one more - is it important to have disrupt at PVE? or useless?

I would not spec for it in PvE just get Futile Strike (to 0% inc damage)/ max Parry / Block then maybe some straight STR RR (or Wounds if you are lacking).
There are very few spellcasters and most bosses who use spells won't allow you to disrupt. The only reason to take Deft Defender RR would be rather for dodge against archers in GB for example.
You already kinda get decent disrupt with your Brutal Smash as a BG anyway.

[leftayparxoun]

I go into detail regarding that in the Blissful Darkpromise build for SnB Blackguard in our warband-guide (Link in my signature).

To save you some time, I'll copy paste it here:

As an SnB Main Tank you’ll want to slot in Armor talis until you reach 4540 armor - 60 armor for each % reduced armor pen that you have
(e.g. for 3% redarpen → 4360 armor needed). You can see your reduced armor pen via targeting yourself and typing .getstats in chat.

If you are on Vanq-adjacent gear, you can do that by using armor talis on duplicate armor pieces that you can get via RvR gold bags, or by buying duplicate Vanq gloves from AH. Using more expensive armor pots or having a Magus in your party may partially make up for the armor difference you need to close.

When tackling Lost Vale remember to have your chance to be crit barely in the negatives (e.g. -0.5%) because anything under 0% is wasted. Feel free to remove some RR from Futile Strikes and maybe add a couple RR points to Initiative to reach the sweet spot.

RR points in Dodge/Disrupt are also useless, so speccing into Hardy Concessions as a solo SnB tank is a good option after Parry% and Block% (it might make your aggro generation slightly worse, but with proper guardswaps it won't matter at all). Final few points may be placed in WOU and TOU.

The reason why I chimed in when so many people already gave advice is because I wanted to clear up a few things like:

• Going above the listed armor threshold is wasted talismans/stats. There is no reason to drink an armor pot if you are above that even, let alone spec and use GCDs on an ability that basically only gives you armor like "Force of Fury".

• Nobody mentioned Hardy Concessions, when it's one of the best ways to further mitigate damage that you fail to avoid. If you can keep aggro up (which you should be able to in a 1-3-2 setup) then it should result in a faster clear time since your damage loss will be usually offset by not dying to an unlucky turn of events a couple times in the dungeons and having to reset a Boss fight. Plus it makes the whole dungeon less stressful on your healers.

• Your masteries should be this. Final few points (if any) should be spent in "Elite Training" (nice protection to Dark Protector and yourself + party AP pump), then either "Wave of Scorn" (easier to keep AOE aggro and also makes running away from mobs between fights easier) or "None Shall Pass" (nice panic button in Boss fights if you wanna save pots). Your M2 depends also on how comfortable you feel MTing; Raze is usually better to help clear mobs between bosses, but the Shield Wall might save you in a couple rough spots (especially if not running the Block Channel)

Good luck tanking!

[Kylashandra]

I didnt mention hardly concessions, because while it's a good mitigation boost, you may also struggle with aggro due to very low damages and it's vastly unnecessary if you have enough defensive stats of other sources.

I also think AoE threat management is pretty hard on BG these days, compared to other tank classes, so skipping Monstruous Ruin tactic might be very inefficient. Depending on your group composition (DPS wise) you don't absolutely need For the witch king! nor Elite training (Elite training is a good panic button against bosses, but vs. swarms of adds it's pretty wasted, and LV is full of encounters like that, it also provides some AP regen for one of your DPS, but AP regeneration should be managed through other ways anyway).

[leftayparxoun]

I didnt mention hardly concessions, because while it's a good mitigation boost, you may also struggle with aggro due to very low damages and it's vastly unnecessary if you have enough defensive stats of other sources.

I thought it would still not matter for in-between Boss mobs, so let's test it out:

As long as your guarded dps is the only one grabbing all the adds between Bosses, you should be able to hold aggro of them as long as the ability that you use to hit the mobs deals at least "Y" damage, where "X" is the damage your guarded dps does to the mobs (e.g. Demolition), "hc" is the hardy concessions damage loss in decimal form, and this holds true:
0.65*X < 0.35*X + 2*Y*(1 - hc) --> 0.3*X < 2*Y*(1 - hc) -->
Y > 0.15*X/(1-hc)

This means that as long as your e.g. "Monstrous Rending" originally hits for 15% of your guarded Dps' AOE attack then you should be fine to get the aggro with just one ability. Having different Hardy Concession levels raises that threshold for but not dramatically:

• 15.2% of your guarded Dps' AOE attack at Hardy Concessions I

• 15.5% of your guarded Dps' AOE attack at Hardy Concessions II

• 15.9% of your guarded Dps' AOE attack at Hardy Concessions III

• 16.7% of your guarded Dps' AOE attack at Hardy Concessions IV

• 17.6% of your guarded Dps' AOE attack at Hardy Concessions V

Due to most mobs in the dungeon having around 2520 Armor, their physical mitigation vs a BG with no WS investment is 46.1% and they take 53.9% of the damage. They also have around 360 Toughness.

With that in mind, BG's "Monstrous Rending" will be hitting them for ~206 damage (with 0 point investment in that tree). After armor mitigation, that becomes 206*0.539 = ~111 damage (without Hardy Concessions).
This means that as long as the ability that the dps uses to pick them up does no Crit for over 740 (no hc), 730 (hc 1), 716 (hc 2), 698 (hc 3), 664 (hc 4) or for over 630 (hc 5), then you will always be able to pick the mobs up with 1 Monstrous Rending.

The worst offender in crits is usually Mara due to the 50% Crit Damage tactic, so in the worst case scenario (for max damage from Demolition) with a build like this, they will be dealing (assuming softcapped STR) ~392 damage (before armor) on a non-crit. This means that the max possible crit (before armor) will be with a 2.05 multiplier, so AT BEST a Demolition will deal ~803 damage before armor.

• Assuming that the Mara is using 2 Onyx, 5pc Sov + 4pc Tri and is also using the Piercing Bite tactic but all talis are in STR, then it would mean a 481 WS and 36% armor pen for Demolition --> for enemies with 2520 armor that's a 16.2% physical mitigation, or 83.8% damage taken.
  The actual MAX damage of a Demolition crit in this case would be: 803*0.838 = 673
  This means that Hardy Concessions 1, 2 and 3 are absolutely safe, and HC 4 and 5 have a small chance to not gain aggro if Mara crit highrolls. Using War Hunger Lini on BG should make HC 4 absolutely safe too.

• Assuming that the Mara is using 2 Onyx, 5pc Sov + 4pc Tri + Piercing Bite tactic and is lazy so all talis are in WS for the orvr build, then it would mean a 673 WS and 36% armor pen for Demolition, but the max Demolition crit damage will be 759 --> for enemies with 2520 armor that's then an 8.2% physical mitigation, or 91.8% damage taken.
  This again means that Hardy Concessions 1, 2 and 3 are absolutely safe, and HC 4 and 5 have a small chance to not gain aggro if Mara crit highrolls. Using War Hunger Lini on BG should make HC 4 absolutely safe too.

So overall I'd say there is no problem with maintaining AOE aggro even on Vanq vs PvE BIS Maras at least until Hardy Concessions 3 and only if you get really unlucky at HC 4 and 5.

Add waves during boss fights should also be easy to maintain with a Challenge + guarding the heaviest AOE outputting dps.

I also think AoE threat management is pretty hard on BG these days, compared to other tank classes, so skipping Monstruous Ruin tactic might be very inefficient. Depending on your group composition (DPS wise) you don't absolutely need For the witch king! nor Elite training (Elite training is a good panic button against bosses, but vs. swarms of adds it's pretty wasted, and LV is full of encounters like that, it also provides some AP regen for one of your DPS, but AP regeneration should be managed through other ways anyway).

I feel like ever since the 03.05.2024 patch, BG has had a much easier time spamming "Monstrous Rending" when MTing so I don't think that tactic is necessary personally. The "Dark Blessings" tactic is great to help your healers out a bit, but is not mandatory by any means on better gear.

As for "For The Witch King", yes it's not necessary in certain setups, but it's a nice QoL thing to have (if you are not going for the "Monstrous Ruin" tactic).
"Elite Training" is too good to pass up in my eyes. Not just because you get the parry buff for you and your DP, but also because it is a party AP pump and not just a ST AP pump as you state:

[rady]

@leftayparxoun could you explain why we need only 4540 armor?

[leftayparxoun]

@leftayparxoun could you explain why we need only 4540 armor?

For sure.
I reverse engineered the final Boss' armor penetration via this method.
It returns that she had 27.3% armor penetration (~430 WS for level 46), which in turn also allows us to calculate the exact amount of armor needed to reach the physical mitigation softcap of 75%.

I also did the same for various trash mobs and turns out all of them were around 27.3% +-0.1% or so, so the armor value needed to reach mitigation softcap should be the same across the entire dungeon.