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[DoK] DPS Spec Advice

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peterthepan3
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#151 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:30 pm

2 questions:

1) What premade were you up against, and what was their setup?
2) Who was in your premade, and what setup?

I can't think of any reason why a DPS DOK/Mara comp or DPS DOK/any DPS with BG armor debuff can't beat any order premade if well-played. Ranged order premades? Perhaps, but that's why you have to LoS and capitalise on marauder M1. If you're up against good tanks, then they will bitch you around - but that has always been an inherent problem to DPS DOKS/WPS.
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freshour
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#152 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:59 pm

Zxul wrote:
freshour wrote:Well, went up against a super meta 6 man last night and realized that while DD dok can do some of the best "sustained" dps, it really doesn't have a burst rotation against guarded targets in an organized group. I think I've personally tried every spec/gear combination possible and I keep falling back to this same line of thinking. We have decent aoe in bursts, we have some aoe fluff, we can make cleansing a nightmare, we can even taken down the majority of targets with 1 other assist. But in a 6 man - I don't think it is meta enough/with a good enough kit to really make it work. But I'll keep trying.
Your best bet is probably combining Devour Essence with spamming Transfer Essence/Pillage Essence (when up) and with aa haste.

On a side note, you don't aa duing channel- so pure burst speaking using Rend is a dmg loss. Thats one reason I don't use aa haste tactic- solo roaming you want to use Rend as much as possible in lot of situations, meaning the aa haste tactic adds 0 dmg 3 sec out of every 8 sec- 40% or so of the time.
Yeah 100% wasn't not talking about solo roaming, more so for SC's and 6 man groups - if ever in RVR it is with a 6 man since I don't do the WB thing anymore now that I rarely ever heal on my DoK.

I usually end up with Fell Sac as my dismount/opener - if i'm ap drain I open with parry debuff, DE + str/drain followed by a pillage if I'm not then I usually just do the same opener into parry debuff then DE get a few transfers if they are below 50% I use wracking agony if they aren't i'll spam transfer essence or by that time we've probably swapped to a dif target so I start my combo again saving wracking agony for when they are below50% and also trying to save my channel for when someone really needs some health so I generally try and make the most of my AA's. If I get the overlord 2 pc I may try and different setup/playstyle but I'm still a ways off of that one.

freshour
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#153 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:05 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:2 questions:

1) What premade were you up against, and what was their setup?
2) Who was in your premade, and what setup?

I can't think of any reason why a DPS DOK/Mara comp or DPS DOK/any DPS with BG armor debuff can't beat any order premade if well-played. Ranged order premades? Perhaps, but that's why you have to LoS and capitalise on marauder M1. If you're up against good tanks, then they will bitch you around - but that has always been an inherent problem to DPS DOKS/WPS.
Our comp was

2h BO - Neutrino
SNB Chosen - new guildmate
DD DoK - Moi
Marauder - Xerol
Heal DoK - Cegee
Zealot - Jau

Their Comp

2h Knight (obviously) - don't remember
2h SM (obviously) - don't remember
WL - Confused
WH - CSI
AM - don't remember
WP - don't remember

Basically it boiled down to them having superior burst. Obviously we aren't a super meta group and we run all kinds of different comps so we haven't had any real practice with our setup other than 3-4 of us playing together a lot. But moral of the story was their burst damage with the kd of whichever other healer - was enough to take down any non guarded target within 2 GCD's more or less.

They'd run around doing some damage here and there, granted I was AP drain so the WL couldn't get much off in a sustain way, but, eventually they'd just get their kd/punt ready (only really needed to KD one healer) - and WH and WL would dump their dps loads and the target would die usually being the zealot or the heal dok. I'd try and channel heal through it, but it was just a lotta damage all at once. Working with some of them on possible tankier solutions. Obviously position matters and if we could make it through that initial burst I think we could have won the engagements as the WL was literally just getting AA's off if I was able to stay on him. But their mobility > ours with pounce/fetch and WH stealth/repel backward and I on the DOK with ZERO mobility, kinda just added to a lot of things not in our favor. I think if we did the matchup enough we could probably take 1 from them but it seemed more of an outclasses and less of an outplayed (clearly CSI/Confused did outplay us a few times) but they were able to get a level of burst that I don't think a destro comp can do with a DD DoK in the mix. But I'm gonna keep trying lol.

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peterthepan3
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#154 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:17 pm

I believe I was in that group on my SM (Skepta? Or it may have been Eiger playing, but I do remember fighting you). I think you guys needed a few more punts/coordinated morales, and your healers needed to CC our healers a bit more. WL/WH comp is all about burst, while the Marauder/DPS DOK has very good sustained the longer the fight goes on. More guard swaps, tougher healers (if it was the fight I am recalling, then your healers died very quickly) & AP drains on the WL, and you'd have put up more of a fight: you have good players. What tactics were you running on the DOK, and were you saving your Devour Essence for when the guards were punted for maximum effect?

Eternal Citadel is much more suited to DPS DOKs, to be fair.

And do keep trying! We're up for doing it again and practicing with you.
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freshour
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#155 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:39 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:I believe I was in that group on my SM (Skepta? Or it may have been Eiger playing, but I do remember fighting you). I think you guys needed a few more punts/coordinated morales, and your healers needed to CC our healers a bit more. WL/WH comp is all about burst, while the Marauder/DPS DOK has very good sustained the longer the fight goes on. More guard swaps, tougher healers (if it was the fight I am recalling, then your healers died very quickly) & AP drains on the WL, and you'd have put up more of a fight: you have good players. What tactics were you running on the DOK, and were you saving your Devour Essence for when the guards were punted for maximum effect?

Eternal Citadel is much more suited to DPS DOKs, to be fair.

And do keep trying! We're up for doing it again and practicing with you.
Yeah I am trying to help where I can. I think we have our heal dok in a much tankier spec. I was running the standard AP drain setup with divine fury, aa haste, murderous intent and ap drain - spec'd up to pillage so I get the full AP drainrotation, was saving DE for any burst rotations. But it was brutal because we'd go for a setup to punt a guard and attempt to get a healer but it was sort of a race against time since their burst was better. The only thing I was thinking is we could have grouped up a bit more because yah after 10-15 seconds the WL would have been in trouble with AP unless he took a pot prior to rotation. But we were using green pots and I dont' even think half of us were using heal pots lol but it was definitely fun. Would like to do it again.

KikkL
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#156 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:57 am

A general question for anyone with knowledge.

What are somethings to lookout for as a healer?
I know wh has had their blessing sever buffed, so need to keep an eye on any 'blessings' you may cast.
Im aware some players come with a enchantment breaker. But not really sure if dok has any enchantments to worry about?

So, other than the sever blessing, and any types of heal debuffs? I think sw,am and maybe wp, slayer? has a heal debuff.
Any other classes with abilities to be on the lookout for when they get on you/others?

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zabis
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#157 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:00 pm

IB has an outgoing heal debuff
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freshour
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#158 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:16 pm

KikkL wrote:A general question for anyone with knowledge.

What are somethings to lookout for as a healer?
I know wh has had their blessing sever buffed, so need to keep an eye on any 'blessings' you may cast.
Im aware some players come with a enchantment breaker. But not really sure if dok has any enchantments to worry about?

So, other than the sever blessing, and any types of heal debuffs? I think sw,am and maybe wp, slayer? has a heal debuff.
Any other classes with abilities to be on the lookout for when they get on you/others?
One thing that I've noticed helps with the 2h SM's that are literally everywhere. Use your shatter on them, literally every 5 seconds if you can get behind them because they willllll parry you. I also agree that the IB outgoing heal debuff is extremely good. Luckily there aren't very many IB's as SM and KOTBS overperform in almost every area other than that outgoing healdebuff so generally you don't see them unless Volo has a group. But that outgoing HD is just brutal.

I would say if you haven't yet - put on quick escape. Our biggest problem is we have no mobility. Our snare cov shares the same ICD as the damage from it (99% sure on this one after testing it for the last few weeks but still get a weird result here and there) so it doesn't reall go off like it used to. We also have no snare break, but as a melee dok you will fight KOTBS's - if there are two of them you will be 100% snared, the entire time, and they are not as easy to kill as 2h SM's (they also don't do the same damage) for an entire game and there is nothing you can do about it aside from a few seconds of freedom that are over ohhhh too soon (RD/Morale)

So if you slot quick escape - and get it on your buffhead so when it procs you aren't in the middle of casting a fell sacrifice (as we usually do between engagements) - it makes alllllllllllll the difference in the world.

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freshour
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#159 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:22 pm

Anyone been able to put together anything of value after the defensive changes? As far as I can tell mostly everything is exactly the same? We can't really get much weaponskill without slotting it in all of our tali slots. BL set is generally too bad to use on any setup other than healing for the extra armor tali - and actually the WS/STR/Melee Power cloak + insert good jewelry item - is quite a bit more stats as I still am not sure WS is worth stacking... just doesn't seem to do anything.

But maybe I've never taken it to the level needed? I am not an expert and I have never claimed to be. Would love to hear if anyone has stumbled upon something?

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lefze
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Re: [DoK] DPS Spec Advice

Post#160 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:30 pm

freshour wrote:Anyone been able to put together anything of value after the defensive changes? As far as I can tell mostly everything is exactly the same? We can't really get much weaponskill without slotting it in all of our tali slots. BL set is generally too bad to use on any setup other than healing for the extra armor tali - and actually the WS/STR/Melee Power cloak + insert good jewelry item - is quite a bit more stats as I still am not sure WS is worth stacking... just doesn't seem to do anything.

But maybe I've never taken it to the level needed? I am not an expert and I have never claimed to be. Would love to hear if anyone has stumbled upon something?
Very recently picked up my melee dok again, only thing I can say is that absolutely nothing seemes to have changed. WS is still simply too hard to stack to be worth it, and the loss in raw damage from strenght/increased parries on your attacks just seems like a gimp. Even dropped the use of BL cloak/jewel for the ws bonus, just doesn't feel worth it at all with the loss of strenght.
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