[Sorc]How bad is it really?

[Dabbart]

But... how does the avoidance changes impact classes that stack DD? DD actually provides less avoidance than previous(check annaise16's math for that proof). The main change was how Willpower and other stats impact avoidance... So. I don't get your final argument at all. EDIT: Except towards DoT avoidance ofc. I am in agreement with yall on that. Each tick avoidance check is OP.

And, for the record, if you want to actually show something or test it, grab someone. I can bring my Shaman out for your BW to test rotations on at specific disrupt/WP amounts. Saying that your video is proof of anything when you don't even mention the high RR of the Z or his gear is bad form... But testing without knowing the actual numbers is proof of nothing. If that Z had 1050 willpower, and capped DD, and x4 disrupt jewels, etc then there is nothing unbalanced about it, as he would go POP vs any physical DPS.

Wasn't that the arguement Daniilpb and Peter were making? That with the respec change people are less likely to super derp stack 1 defensive type to deal with enemy comp? If you go overboard defending against 1 thing, then you die to another. Hence the rock paper scissors.

And I disagree with your statements as well. If someone is dedicated to defending against that DPS form, then yea, with M2 focus heals a healer could survive w/o detaunting. Dodge/Parry/armor/resistances/toughness/bubbles/etc.

TLDR: I still agree that disrupt rates are overboard. I just don't believe that video, or random theory crafting w/o even bothering to know your enemies defense stats proves a damn thing.

[Reesh]

I still fail to grasp the whole concept of BW/Sorc damage being irrelevant to healers to be somehow compensated by the group.

the group carries the BW/Sorc so it can move to close 5feet range and hit the healer in the head with their staff and do a critical knockout

It's time to start hunting for the best DPS staff on the market and slot AA haste jewels boyzzzz.

[daniilpb]

I still fail to grasp the whole concept of BW/Sorc damage being irrelevant to healers to be somehow compensated by the group.

the group carries the BW/Sorc so it can move to close 5feet range and hit the healer in the head with their staff and do a critical knockout

Spoiler:

Give BWs swords

[Klesko]

Also later you get to have fun times facing hordes of WLs

Lions roam in prides, not hordes. I thought this was grade school knowledge.

[michela89]

There is one simple issue:
- when BiS Engi will sit on an unguarded healer without detaunting him, his hp will drop drastically;
- when BiS SW/SH will sit on an unguarded healer without detaunting them, his hp will drop drastically;
- when BiS WL/Mara will sit on an unguarded healer without detaunting them, his hp will drop drastically;
- when BiS SL/CH will sit on an unguarded healer without detaunting them, his hp will drop drastically;
- when BiS WH/WE will sit on an unguarded healer without detaunting them, his hp will drop drastically;
- when BiS BW/Sorc/Magus will sit on an unguarded healer without detaunting them, healer will start doing /lol emotes;

And that above, goes beyond just targeting healers. Yes, it's easier to land ANY spell as a caster on non healer classes, but those that aren't mindless pugs have invested fully into DD negating rdps casters. Phys rdps have much more tools against DD and are still doing fine.

considering this is mostly PuG talk: I think this is must be a willpower stacking issue only (well aside tanks for obvious reasons)

DaftDefender is not negating archetypes like dpsers to be killed by magus/sorc, it's giving them a chance not to melt in a single rotation from 100 yard especially if not guarded, as Sorcs can definitely do that.
The rest is all up to the healers and Guard.

It's not like people are just defending against Disrupt, most mdps classes have atleast 30% parry (I would say most DPS have 18/20% disrupt).
Yes, disrupt is stronger than parry as you can negate parry completely with positioning. But there must also be a trade off for range vs melee.






btw I am really curious to see a good mdps on a good Dok/WP that isnt guarded / not detaunting, and see how it goes.

[richard1032]

hahaha, that video made me laugh middlefinger..... Then i cried.

Fortunately i didn't have to go through the changes for long as my char was retired shortly afterwards.

Littlebomber
Fandanfinlyman

[Fey]

Don't bother. Utter rubbish.

[Banjomissen]

I don't really see the problem with disrupt. To me it doesn't seem like Sorcs, Magi. BWs, DPS shamans and AMs have problems killing anything.

Seen lowbies in T4 and Bis geared players alike making it work even if there's some new formula to disruption.

[sirensong25]

Omg, middlefinger's video!! That in itself makes this thread totally worth it. Took a huge mouthful of coffee waiting to meet friends and well, an awkward mess ensued trying to laugh at the same time. Sooo, that was fun, anywho..

On to topic- I can see into both opposing perspectives in this discussion, yet, truthfully, I am a bit biased/subjective just because I love the Sorc and BW classes. I am also curious about their 'future' state, judging by the slick slope into an ever greater niche class, in which, there seems to be the laundry list of exceptions to perpetuate their functionality.

Yet, couldn't their be an introduction of something such as "in response to disrupt, x utility or group centric buff pops off? Maybe take from the morale like windwoven shell or whatever.

I would love to have access to even 1 decent escape ability from melee every now and then, even if it was random. While moving away from the once ridiculous damage we dealt in the past, an amelioration ongoing, understandably, couldn't there be something to augment?

This has probably been discussed already, so if my words or ideas are stale, sorry. I actually do respect the direction of the developers whom put much into this, and that they share our enthusiasm for the game.

[biqbox]

Just stopping by in my own thread to say that I've quit my sorc shortly after getting to 40/4x. The disrupts killed the fun for me. If the problem was sorc dmg being too high I would rather have seen a flat reduce in dmg, and not just add a heavy RNG element.